OT:Joe Meek ONEQ vs API 512/550/RNC - Interesting

[trock]

Well, i got a meek oneQ off ebay for 400 bucks. i wanted to have a lower end channel strip to have with that meek color in certain areas.

i decided to A/B it against the API front end i have that cost a whole hell of a lot more

Well the meek not only held its own on acoustic guitar but gave it a nice growl that the API lacked, even Padded and cranked.

the meek is a little muddier but i tweaked i out with the EQ.

so 400 bucks vs the 2100 front end and i certainly wouldn't be unhappy with the meek and nothing else.

trying on vocals later.

this was sort of a bob test, in terms of lower end stuff vs the "high" end. just thought i would post those findings. and again they are my opinion

still love the API but i can see where technology is drawing the lines closer and cheaper labor in china is making price points hard to pass up as much as i want to only buy something made here. YMMV

[trock]

oh and the mic was a peluso 22 251

[Mark Stebbeds]

Well the meek not only held its own on acoustic guitar but gave it a nice growl that the API lacked, even Padded and cranked.

the meek is a little muddier but i tweaked i out with the EQ.



You should have no problem find many mic pres that are muddier and cheaper than the API. The fact that you needed to add EQ for an acoustic recording to sound acceptable with the Joe Meek is an indication of the quality, as compared to the API.

That's not to say you can't make a decent recording with it, but In your example, you get what you pay for.

Mark

[trock]

Mark do you ever suffer this?

i am already bored with the meek and want the new NEVE portico and a distressor :)

and please tell me, does it ever end?? the gear lust thing?

:eek:

[Carl G.]

Mark do you ever suffer this?

i am already bored with the meek and want the new NEVE portico and a distressor :)

and please tell me, does it ever end?? the gear lust thing?

:eek:
oh... the trials of the rich and famous :)

[Bill Park]

Mark do you ever suffer this?

i am already bored with the meek and want the new NEVE portico and a distressor :)

and please tell me, does it ever end?? the gear lust thing?

:eek:

Yes.

Gear lust ends when you get what you want. That happens when you stop buying impulsively and think about what you want, stop trying to save a buck by purchasing an also-ran and step up top the plate for the grear that you know that you need.

This point is at different places for different people. We each have to live within our budgets. But I'll tell you this... EVERY TIME that I tried to save a buck, it ended up costing me more, as I bought the crap that I thought was going to save me money, then I went and got what I knew I should have bought in the first place.

Last year I left my studio. Last night I took a look in my music room and made some hard decisions about what I was going to keep and what I was going to get rid of. It makes very little sense to keep 36 channels of mic pres in my home writing rig. I whined and cried, and talked myself into keeping six channels... 2 John Hardy, 2 Great River NV, and 2 channels of DataMix (like, Hendrix, Electric Ladyland Studio console modules.) I made similar choices as I did when buying the stuff... clean channels, flexible channels with character, and total out there channels. I should probably only keep four, but.... well, I can't toss the DataMix modules, they have just too much history.

The point is, if you buy this stuff as if it is the only stuff that you will ever be able to buy, you'll buy the right stuff. If you run around from the pre du jure to next weeks popular choice, you'll waste lots of time and money. Stop reading ads, start listening and thinking.

Bill

[trock]

ah Bill

very good post. i was half joking with that reply. i have the API front that i do love but the Meek to me was something i was hoping would add some color or a different sound i could use. which it does, so it was a worthwhile purchase for me. i can also bypass the Pre on it and use the API with the very good EQ and Comp.

i go in cycles on gear lust, but at this point i am no longer quite as new or quite as nieve as before so i am thinking more and more and testing more and more before i buy.

would i love the Neve, Distressor, Quartet, Great River, etc etc and about 5 great and flexible mics?

yep

and slowly, one piece at a time as i can afford to do it i will add things to my studio. i took some good advice once from another "top" guy after i had purchased a bunch of avalon and TC stuff and didn't like what i was getting and sold all for a decent loss.

he said alot of what you said and then said "its very bad practice to buy without testing and then to sell for a loss, stop selling stuff and try it out thoroughly first and then KEEP IT if it works for you"

online stores who will ship to you and let you try it all out and return it without a restocking fee are wonderful

by the way if you want to sell the GR's let me know :D

[Mark Stebbeds]

Mark do you ever suffer this?

i am already bored with the meek and want the new NEVE portico and a distressor :)

and please tell me, does it ever end?? the gear lust thing?

:eek:

I usually buy gear when I need something, not when I'm bored. I've been bored for the last 15 years. :) And Meek gear bored me about after about 10 seconds, as you've discovered. I only buy gear after having used it, or after careful research trusting the opinions of those I respect. A flexible return policy is helpful. I don't use Ebay for buying anymore because I've been burned, but I may use it to sell.

Why do you need a Neve Portico? Why do you like the Distressor? Buying a piece of gear out of curiosity leads to errors in judgement, IMHO.

Mark

[trock]

Hey Mark

i guess where i am at right now i have the API 512c/550 vintage eq and an RNC as a front end with a peluso 22 251 mic, and am happy with that for what i do.

i had heard the meek was possibly good on rock vocals etc, and i got it off ebay so i didn't get a chance to try it out, however i think it will give me a tool here and there and the cost was very low so i am not dissapointed

ah the Neve, Distressor etc

well, i guess i don't have to have them for me, but as i get others in to do projects or switch out of the mode i do in terms of songs i would like to have some other sounds and tools to choose from. and yes, because i have read and heard that these are great pieces of gear and worthy of trying.

and well, i like gear, i know that sounds stupid but it excites me and i like to fiddle with that stuff. and i like how a rack looks with it in there. probably makes no sense and is an expensive lust to have.

i have reined it in ALOT and haven't purchased anything for quite some time.

i guess for someone like me at home, i just get to read the forums and see what other people think of these pieces, and if it what they are doing is similar to me i put it on my list of stuff to try someday.

thats really the best explanation i can give you???

[Mark Stebbeds]

ah the Neve, Distressor etc

well, i guess i don't have to have them for me, but as i get others in to do projects or switch out of the mode i do in terms of songs i would like to have some other sounds and tools to choose from. and yes, because i have read and heard that these are great pieces of gear and worthy of trying.



I would say the Neve Portico would be a nice compliment to your API, and at the last AES show, the Portico rep was offering evaluation periods using the old "buy it now, and you have two weeks to return it for full refund" approach.

To me the Distressor is a one trick pony, although many others will disagree with me. It does a cool over the top compression in the "blue light Nuke" mode, or whatever it's called, but the other setttings didn't do much for me.

If I had to have only one hardware compressor for music sessions, it would be an 1176LN, for it's flexibility. Maybe a pair before I picked up anything else. (and I like the Silver face models...go figure)

My $.02.

Mark

[trock]

thanks mark, i never thought of that for a comp, am off to take a look at it.

yes i think the Neve will be my next try. probably the pre/eq combo and possibly another RNC for now, although i will look into what you suggested.

what do you use mic wise for acoustic rock? almost in the goo goo dools realm or even mellencamp? that hard strumming thing to a light picking pattern??

the Pendulum quartet looks really ncie too, have you tried or heard one?

thanks!

[Oz Nimbus]

To me the Distressor is a one trick pony, although many others will disagree with me. It does a cool over the top compression in the "blue light Nuke" mode, or whatever it's called, but the other setttings didn't do much for me.

My $.02.

Mark


Wow, that's the one mode I never use mine in. And mine gets a lot of use. Oh well, different strokes, etc....

[Mark Stebbeds]

Wow, that's the one mode I never use mine in. And mine gets a lot of use. Oh well, different strokes, etc....

My point exactly.:) Most folks are surprised at my opinion. It sure makes things sound compressed, IMO.

I guess it depends on what else you have in the house to decide how useful something new is.

Mark

[Mark Stebbeds]

possibly another RNC for now, although i will look into what you suggested.

I think one RNC is enough for anyone.:)


what do you use mic wise for acoustic rock? almost in the goo goo dools realm or even mellencamp? that hard strumming thing to a light picking pattern??


It varies. For strumming usually a large diaphram condensor, or sometimes a wide pattern small diaphram "soft sounding" condensor like a KM84. Your clone 251 sounds like a good choice.

For picking patterns I've been using a royer ribbon lately. It has a nice characteristic that requires less compression, if any.

I tried a Pendulum mic pre and a compressor once, and wasn't impressed enough to consider owning one.

At home, I have four channels of mic pre, three limiters, a stereo EQ, a mono EQ, and a few rack reverbs and effects, and a half dozen mics. That's plenty of hardware for now, unless I expand into recording more musicians simo. When I go to the studio, what I drag along is a nice compliment to what is in house.

Mark

[Mark Stebbeds]

what do you use mic wise for acoustic rock?

Forgot to mention Nashville tuning.

Mark

[trock]

what is nashville tuning exactly??

Did John use that?? since i really like mellencamp alot and have seen his great shows 3 or 4 times, can you shed some light on what you recorded him with? i always thought he had agreat acoustic sound.

thanks

[ffarrell]

http://www.guitartips.addr.com/tip164.html

[trock]

wow!

thats some crazy stuff. thanks frank, i am going to try that on my other acoustic and see how it sounds

[Mark Stebbeds]

what is nashville tuning exactly??

See Frank's link. I think there are options in the choices of string size used by different players, but the link is a good place to start.


Did John use that??

Sometimes. It gives a lighter texture to the rhythm.

That's where I learned about it years ago. Bloomington, IN is close to Nashville, so I guess it was a regional influence of sorts.

mark

[Jujuman]

To chime in about the gear lust:

Well there is a BIG difference between what you WANT and what you NEED to get the job done. I am a victim of this sickness but, I am also realistic about what I need and my budget. Let's see ....... GML mic channel OR food for the kids? I have also honed my skills to the point that gear lust becomes irrelavent to getting the job done. Also realize that there is a point of deminishing returns in sound quality as the price rises.

In the hands of a great engineer, you cannot tell the difference between $1K mic pres and a $4K mic pres while listening to a full mix. Listen to 1 or 2 channels..... maybe. A full mix, nope.

Please realize that buying that fantasy piece of gear with "higher" resolution will do one thing that you may not have intended, such as expose your skills for what they are. If you are an A-List engineer and can extract the full potential of the gear.....kudos to you. But if you are less talented, gear alone will not make you better.

Someone close to me once said "A MIDAS in the hands of a newbie can sound like S*&T:eek: but a TAPCO 4-channel in the hands of a master can sound like a dream".:rolleyes:

My $.02

Jujuman:cool:

[Brent Bennett]

I use a variation of the Nashville tuning for a few recordings. I only change the low E and A strings. I use a high E on strings 1 and 6 - and an .018 or so for an A string. Usually I'll play a standard acoustic on one side, and the "high strung" acoustic on the other. If you want to hear the results you can go here Marshall Law (http://www.myspace.com/marshalllawmusic) and listen to "Enjoy the Ride".

As a side note: I produced and co-engineered this album with George Tutko - an old collegue of Mark Stebbeds on John Cougar's American Fool album.

Anyway, that's what we used for acoustics on that song. The standard acoustic I played was a Taylor 814CE, and the high strung was a cheap Carlos Robelli acoustic.

Cheers

[Bill Park]

I agree with Mark about the Distressor... it is used on a LOT of stuff by a lot of people, but to me it is a one trick pony.

If I were looking to buy mic pres today, I'd be checking out Olivers offerings at TabFunkenwerk, Gregs Pendulum products, the Ferns, Dan at Great River, Dave Hill's Cranesong pres, and probably some of Pete's ADesigns products. Of course, can't skip George Massenburg, but I generally find it hard to breathe up there. These guys are always on top of their game, adapting and improving and building top filght products. Oh, and Gordon, for something squeeky clean.

I'm sure that others have their favorites, but I find the sound, build quality, and support from these people to be compelling reasons to check out their work. Much of their gear is hand built or darned close to it, and not much seems to get by these guys anymore.

Bill

[Bill Park]

Someone close to me once said "A MIDAS in the hands of a newbie can sound like S*&T:eek: but a TAPCO 4-channel in the hands of a master can sound like a dream".:rolleyes:

My $.02

Jujuman:cool:

all true... and all the more reason to get that Midas into the hands of the master.

Bill