No Live inputs have been assigned?

[AudioAstronomer]

I am having a small problem. I set a track to record, set the appropriate input assignment. Make sure the track is routing to a valid output (and it plays back fine). When I attempt to use live input mode, I get the error message in the title of the post.

Using ASIO with Motu 896 interface. Could I be handling this wrong since I am new, or is there something im not aware of that needs to be fixed?

[Bob L]

In order to use Live Input Mode you must be setting mixer channels to input devices or have a VST Synth plugin patched which generates its own audio.

If you look at the I/A section of the input modules (at the top) you will see the Input Source selection... normally this is set to MultiTrack, which means it looks to the MultiTrack track for its audio data.

You can also set this to any of your audio card input devices... which would mean the module looks to this device for a live input signal.

Or you can patch any VSTi synth plugin into the Pre Patch point... this would also qualify as a live input source.

Once you have designated at least one mixer channel to a live input source, you can then activate Live Input Mode and use the virtual console as a live mixing board... of course you will need to get your audio device setup buffers down to a small size for real-time latency... settings of 3 x 256 or smaller would be needed... the smaller the better.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

So I would be required to adjust the input source of each strip to continue normal playback routines?

Im amazed more by the minute though. wow

[Bob L]

I guess I'm not understanding your question...

You can record and overdub and playback and mix and finish sessions without ever using Live Input Mode.

Live Input Mode is a special mode that allows the routing of live signals through the virtual console and straight out to speakers as in a live PA system.

You can also use it to feed your recording signals through the virtual console modules and all of the virtual processing and then record and also feed the signal live directly back to the performers through aux sends as headphone outputs... it can be quite fun running the system in this manner.

Live Input Mode and recording through modules is an advanced subject and perhaps better left alone until you get more comfortable with the rest of the environment. ;)

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

it can be quite fun running the system in this manner.


Bob L


You and I have very different definitions of the word "fun" Bob. :rolleyes:

Actually it is pretty cool to run it. Learning how to set it up for the first time, however.... well, that was an experience, to say the least.

Live input mode can be pretty amazing for sending headphone feeds. Especially to thrasher drummers. "Can you get the kick in the phones any louder?" is the ususal question, once you've got your phone amp's volume all the way up. Send him a live feed with an ultrafunk comp strapped across it, set to "stun." Works every time.

Drummer after session: "Pardon? What? Did you say something?"


-0z-

[AudioAstronomer]

What Oz is getting at is the same thing I am attempting to do more or less :)

Still having issues but I can get by quite easily with small mixer :)

[Bob L]

So, you are trying to use Live Input mode to route all input signals, monitor back to headphones and also hear a different mix in the control room... correct?

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Well, that's what I use it for, anyway. Main mix goes to the control room, and then I'll set up an aux send to directly output to a different pair of outs on my soundcard.... that feeds the headphone amp.

[AudioAstronomer]

So, you are trying to use Live Input mode to route all input signals, monitor back to headphones and also hear a different mix in the control room... correct?

Bob L

That's correct bob. Seems like there would be another way to do this in Saw, but Im still a bit of a newbie :)

[Bob L]

There are a few ways to work this.


First, to use Live Input and route signals back to performers your system and soundcard drivers must be capable of reaching perhaps 3 x 128 or lower in buffer settings... If your system is stable at those low settings then try this:

1) Create a folder and save a new blank session.

2) You can set each mixer channel starting on chan 1 to look at an indivdual audio device for its input, instead of looking to the MultiTrack... Go to the top of the module in the Input/Attenuation section and select device 1, 2, etc across the mixer channels... these are normally defaulted to stereo devices... you can set each channel up as mono if you like... simply left click on the word MONO next to the MONO button and use the popup menu to select L Only for the first chan, and R Only for the next channel... yes you can assign the same Device as an input source to multiple channels... in fact you can assign all channels to see the same device if desired.

3) Next, label your tracks in the MultiTrack... Kick, Snare... etc.

4) Now arm the tracks for recording by pressing the red record button on each track you wish to record... here is where you select the input source for the record meter that pops up... left-click in the INPUT zone on the meter... select Mixer Channels and select the mixer channel that is assigned to the device input you wish to use... if that mixer channel has been set as mono, then the record signal and file for that record track will create a mono file... otherwise it will create a stereo file.

5) When you now press Rec/Rdy or SRP, the signals will become active... here is how it flows... the signal passes through each mixer channel all the way down through the main fader... all controls are active... all plugins patched are active... you will be monitoring the signal live (with latency determined by your buffer settings) and EQ, Dynamics and plugins will be heard... the main fader feeds your monitor control mix... the record signal is taken from just after the Pre-Patch point.... You can use a few Aux Sends set to PRE to send monitor signals back to the performers (assign the Aux Masters to Device Outs and send them to headphone amps)... you can also control the routing of the record signal flow... the default is that the Pre-Patch point is after the EQ and DYN section of the modules... this means if you use the EQ, you will record the processed signal as well as monitor it... but there is an option on the Mixer Menu that allows the Pre-Patch point to be moved in front of the EQ/DYN section on a track by track basis... doing so for each track would allow you to record a completely flat and dry signal while you EQ, Compress, Gate and Reverb your monitor signal any way you like... you can also blend the virtual reverb return channel directly into the Aux Master device out that is feeding the headphones by double assigning the return track to the headphone device number also and then using the red output chan fader to control the amount of reverb blended into the headphones (make sure to assign this out chan to itself as a hardware device out).

6) The one last tricky thing about this arrangement is that once you lay down the original first set of tracks, when you playback normally, the tracks will not be heard because the mixer is still looking at the devices for signal and not the MT... so there is a built-in feature that auto switches all live input assignments temporarily back to the MT without loosing their original setup... simply press Shift when you start MT playback... now if you listen and decide to do another take, when you start recording again, all mixer channels will switch back to live inputs.

7) Once you get a good track, you must then reset the mixer channel back to the MultiTrack in order to move on to overdubbing.

Another interesting tip is to setup the last x number of channels on the mixer as permanent live inputs (in full Studio you can start at channel 50 or so)... in this way, your first section of channels can stay set all the time to MT and each time you arm a track for record just point it to Mixer Channel 50 or 51 or wherever the live inputs are... now you never have to re-assign mixer channels as you start overdubbing and build up the project... but be aware that your monitor and record signals would be happening down at channel 50 and up, while any already recorded track would be playing on track 1 and up... this is powerful, but you do have to get use to the idea of double aux sending the newly recorded track to match the original live input monitor as you go along...

There are many variations on the theme, but hopefully you can see the concept.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

I did get this working, and it is very cool!

two questions though:

1. No feed is occuring unless playback is started. how can You have a it feed through withouyt playback.

2. I have to use ASIO with my motu 896, My input selects are 1, 3 ,5, 7. Obviously stereo. Is there a way to select mono inputs specifically or is this the fault of the drivers? I would think since I can easily utilize all 8 inputs recording, live input should recognize this as well?

pardon me if I am missing something simple, Im learning more about this software everyday and I dont think Ill ever cease to be amazed.

side note: Just got finished with my first sawstudio gig. I used Sawbasic to track a live jazz band, then burned an amazingly great sounding CD within minutes of the performance. They offered me another gig and were amazed with the quality and speed which they saw me editing... Within minutes i had the entire live performance edited and ready for general listening. Wow! :) That just paid for my SSL upgrade too :) yay! Maybe Ill wait till the second gig :)

[Bob L]

When using ASIO in Studio you will see every odd driver number such as 1, 3, 5 and so on... this is because SS is arranging them in stereo pairs for its internal handling... ignore the numbering, they still work as the MME stereo pairs do and if you re-read my last post here, you can still setup mono live inputs as stated.

You can either toggle into Live Input Mode (L key from any mixer window or select Live Input from the Mixer Menu) to activate the signals without playback or if you are set to record, simply press Rec/Rdy to monitor and set levels.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Thank you bob! Your time reiterating is well appreciated.

[Yura]

I can add one little detail.
if you call attention, there is no latency at all between the track that is
recorded directly from assigned devise and the track recorded from virtual
mixer channel. perfectly. :p

[Alex_G]

Would be great if you could implement...

Tapemachine Style.
This option emulates standard tapemachine behavior: Input monitoring in stop mode and during recording, but not during playback.

I'm not sure if this is part of the ASIO model.

Alex :)

[Bob L]

I am working on full internal MT/Dev switching on punch-in... there is a lot more to this than anything inside a driver model... the console and the entire multitrack environment really need to be part of this design to do it as we are used to with a 24 track deck and a true large-scale recording mixing desk where the desk has full control over the signal routing as in SAWStudio.

Keep watching this development... I believe I'm close to getting this to work the way I have always dreamed.

Bob L

[Alex_G]

That sound great!

"Keep watching this development..."

I will ____ :eek: ____(this new forum is fun)

Thanks!

Alex

[Yura]

It would be more than nice!
since I'v been emulating the tapemachine weeling of SS by very tricking ways!
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