xp install question

[Bill Park]

Okay, so it's been a log time since I loaded up XP. I wiped the previous attempt, with the help of others here got the right disks/serial numbers together, and started to load in XP.

Well, it seems to be in a loop of some sort.

It takes me through the DOS-ish part (starting with 'Windows is inspecting your computers hardware...'), and determining which partition on which to load XP, and it loads in files, and goes to a re-boot screen. (Your computer will reboot in 15 seconds)

I seem to remember this as being the point where the system reboots and Windows comes up, and you make all the windows decisions.

But that is not what happens.

When the computer reboots, I end up back at the starting point, with the 'Windows is inspecting your computers hardware...' screen and we start the whole process over again. And again.

Doesn't seem to matter if i allow the computer to reboot on its own or if I hit the 'any key to reboot'.

Anyone seen this?

Bill

[johndale]

I don't know Bill, but I will give you a bump. I guess you have been to the MS knowledge base? If that don't help, their support (email) is not as bad as people say. Here it is BUMP.
John

[Neal Starrett]

Hey Bill, I'm no expert but make sure autorun for the cd rom is set to 0 (set in regedit, not really sure if you can do this now or if it matters) and also before I do a reinstall, I make the cd rom is the 1st boot device (set from bios) and when the press any key comes up the second time, do not press any key. HTH
niles

[Rabbit]

You might want to consider ejecting the CD before it reboots. That usually does the trick.

[jazzboxmaker]

Try ejecting the CD before it reboots. It should realize it's in the middle of an install and ask for the CD again, or if it's finished copying files, continue where it left off. Sometimes ya gotta fool it or maybe that's a "Dope Slap"
Good Luck

[jazzboxmaker]

jeeze, you type faster than me:)

[Bill Park]

Nope. I tried that already. It just ges to a back screen with "Operating System not found" and a blinking cursor on the next line.

Bill

[SoundSuite]

Bill,

If you are trying to install to a SATA or shall we say non-ide controller...
-During the setup, hit F6 to feed setup the floppy disk that contains the controller drivers for XP.


If you are attempting an install to a regular IDE HD....it may be the BIOS trying to boot off the wrong device...
-Enter BIOS, set 1st bootable device as CDROM, 2nd as HD, save and exit BIOS
-Boot from CDROM and do the first phase of setup
-When setup reboots you, during that reboot, goto BIOS, set 1st device for HD, 2nd as CDROM, save and exit BIOS.
-reboot and continue with setup (in theory)


good luck

[jazzboxmaker]

Have you nuked the drive & re-partitioned? Maybe you should try it. Sounds like its trying to boot but there's a bad file and it's auto rebooting

[Tree Leopard]

... Doesn't seem to matter if i allow the computer to reboot on its own or if I hit the 'any key to reboot'.

Anyone seen this?

BillLet it reboot on it's own. "Hit any key" just gets you back to square one.

After rebooting, it should run through to the second phase, with lots of lovely splash screens telling how bloody wonderful XP is, while the installer loads in the cabs. For an attended install about 10 mins after the start a Date / Localization settings page will appear, which you have to manually complete. Then it will continue installing for approx 25-30 mins. The last part gets you to the horrifying sight of a desktop with a green hill invaded by hundreds of pop-up balloons.

However, since you've already tried to install there will be a big fat Windows temp folder on your system drive. (This could be causing the loop that you were talking about).

You'll have to delete this by reformatting whatever is going to be your C drive - all of it, not just the partition. This minimizes the possibility of any snippets of junk interferring with the install process. Also: avoid "Quick Format" - only creates more problems.

Once you've totally wiped and reformatted the C drive then you can create a new partitions, using the same menu. OK, it's adding an extra step to the process, but it's worth starting with a clean slate.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=313348 (for more cooking instructions)

Btw, you can use this on line utiility http://html2pdf.seven49.net/ for making PDFs of any Microsoft KB articles. Much easier for printing.

And start afresh ...

(just hope I've interpreted your problem correctly .. )

Andre

[Brent Bennett]

Btw, you can use this on line utiility http://html2pdf.seven49.net/ for making PDFs

Nice freaking utility!

[Daveo]

Had the same problem Bill and was left scratching my head...
Problem was a faulty HDD.
Bought a new drive and away I went!
Good Luck

Dave

[Bill Park]

If you are attempting an install to a regular IDE HD....it may be the BIOS trying to boot off the wrong device...

It is regular IDE, and I have visited the BIOS and mader sure that the CD is ahead of the HD in boot order.

Thanks,

Bill

[Bill Park]

Problem was a faulty HDD.

Dave

Thanks Dave. The drive runs okay on other machines, though it has never been a boot drive. That might make a difference. I checked it yesterday on another machine. Earlier this year it was a dtata drive in an old studio machine.

Bill

[Bill Park]

After rebooting, it should run through to the second phase, ...

...there will be a big fat Windows temp folder on your system drive. (This could be causing the loop that you were talking about).



"
After rebooting, it should run through to the second phase, ..."

THAT is the problem... no second phase.

"big fat Windows temp folder ..."

I've moved the drive to another machine as a d: drive, wiped the drive and reformatted it, then returned it to the machine in question. No joy. Same loop happens.

Interesting looking utility, though...

Thanks. It appears that I am not crazy. Or at least, this isn't the correct indicator.

Bill

[Tim Miskimon]

Bill,
It could be a bad (on it's way out) CD rom drive. I had a CD rom that would not install software from certain disks but would read other disks fine.
Just a thought.

[Tree Leopard]

Bill - I just remembered: the only time I've had this looping problem was with mismatched RAM. I had to guess which RAM module was "merde" ... luckily I got it right. That was Day 2 of "My Personal Windows Reality TV Challenge", right in the middle of a project. So I can sense your fustration.

The only other thing I can think of: you've double checked that the jumpers are correctly set to "Master" on your "C" drive?

Otherwise, Robert might have the magic suggestion (if he hasn't been smoked out by the fires in FL yet)

Good luck!

Andre

[Bill Park]

Bill - I just remembered: the only time I've had this looping problem was with mismatched RAM.

The only other thing I can think of: you've double checked that the jumpers are correctly set to "Master" on your "C" drive?
Andre

well, only one stick of RAM in the machine. Ans yes, the drive is jumpered to 'master'.

I've even been down the NTLDR routine, and boot.ini.

Bill

[Bill Park]

Bill,
It could be a bad (on it's way out) CD rom drive. I had a CD rom that would not install software from certain disks but would read other disks fine.
Just a thought.

Tim,

Yes, the CD drive was flaky on the machine to start with. It would give me 'corrupted disk' errors occasionally. So after i could not get the install to work, I swapped out the existing drive with another one from another machine. still no joy.

I'm wondering if HP has done something in the bios that I can't see, that limits this machine somehow. I can't find a new bios for it, and the HP site only shows this machine running Win2K, even though this one was an ME machine, and has the ME sticker on the front.

Bill

[canipus]

"
After rebooting, it should run through to the second phase, ..."

THAT is the problem... no second phase.

"big fat Windows temp folder ..."

I've moved the drive to another machine as a d: drive, wiped the drive and reformatted it, then returned it to the machine in question. No joy. Same loop happens.

Interesting looking utility, though...

Thanks. It appears that I am not crazy. Or at least, this isn't the correct indicator.

Bill

If the problem on the drive is the partition structure then placing the drive in another windows PC and cleaning and formatting won't cure the problem in fact it will probably make it worse. The partition needs to be seen by the installation process as a system partiton for the system files (loaded on the first round off the CD). to be read after the reboot. If the process can't see the copied files on the drive it will think they don't exist and therefore will re-initiate a new install - you'll end up in a loop. Most folks give up waste their money on a new hard drive. The new hard drive works and then they wrongly assume the old drive is faulty - when its the partition flag that is incorrect.
The way the install works is that a few MB of system files have to be loaded in a primary system capable partition and the partition must be the first physical partition on the drive. Then a virtual windows environment is set up by installing an entire stream of drivers and system files that will allow the real installation process to run from within the virtual environment. Once the real installation process kicks off you are then given an option which partition you want the 'boot' files that comprise the operating system to be installed in.
You can ususally install the boot files on any partition but system files must be in the first physical partition and will only comprise a few MB to get the system going. IOW the system boots up from these system enabling files and the OS then runs from the boot files (Microsoft Terminology).
In all liklihood all that is happening is you are copying and WRITING the first system files and virtual environment installation files from the CD but they are going onto a partition structure (wrong flag set), that will not allow the files to be READ from the HD after the reboot. So the process thinks its a freash install and starts from scratch.

You need to get the drive out and get it back in the other PC. Get hold of a version of Partition Magic 8.0 OR EARLIER, learn how to use it by reading the help files (it is very intuitive), delete the partition so the entire drive is empty of any structure and then recreate a primary system partition for Win XP. When prompted for the parition structure type choose FAT32. You will also need to enable LARGE FAT32 parition structures within the Partition Magic options before doing this.
That's it. Put the drive back in the problem PC and start the installation process. During the installation you will get an option to convert the drive to NTFS(5). At that point you can choose whether to stay with the FAT or go with the NTFS structure. Either way, you must let the installation process create an NTFS structure for you. You can do it from within Partition Magic but I'm advising you to let the Windoes virtual environment do it for you.

One final caution, the advice Tim McK gave u was good. Do NOT underestimate the condition of the CD unit to wreck a Windows installation. Therefore check the read/write capability of the CD system in another PC as part of your troubleshooting diagnostics. A minute film over the optics lense will wreck software installation from CD media - ESPECIALLY WINDOWS INSTALLATIONS where the virtual environment has to copy and extract the data as its streamed off the media.

Just my 2c. Good luck. If you haven't used PM before there's nothing to panic about. It's a very friendly tool and is designed for non experts. Try and get hold of the PowerQuest version 8 or 7 (7 preferably). The later versions are under the control of NORTON and u know what that means. (How to take a good robust award winning computer tool and totally wreck it).
Partition Magic will also check your disc for u when creating the partition so if the sectoring is faulty it will tell you and prevent u wasting your time creating installations on faulty drives.

There are other utilities that will do all this stuff but if you're cutting your teeth on disc structures, then PM is probably the easiste learning curve (well it was until Norton decide to automate the processing).

[canipus]

Tim,

Yes, the CD drive was flaky on the machine to start with. It would give me 'corrupted disk' errors occasionally. So after i could not get the install to work, I swapped out the existing drive with another one from another machine. still no joy.

I'm wondering if HP has done something in the bios that I can't see, that limits this machine somehow. I can't find a new bios for it, and the HP site only shows this machine running Win2K, even though this one was an ME machine, and has the ME sticker on the front.

Bill

OK this thread is moving faster than I can type. Seems you have eliminated the CD unit. Re HP doing something NO. Re Win ME and Win2K? Definitely. YOU MUST delete the entire partition structure and recreate a system partition , primary, for XP.

[Bill Park]

... YOU MUST delete the entire partition structure and recreate a system partition , primary, for XP.

Took the drive to another computer and reformatted it (to NTFS), eliminating any residual information.

Bill

[Bill Park]

...The drive runs okay on other machines, ...
Bill

just to follow up, (leaving no turn unstoned...) I tried another hard drive...same results.

Bill

[Bill Park]

...- when its the partition flag that is incorrect.

You need to get the drive out and get it back in the other PC. Get hold of a version of Partition Magic 8.0 OR EARLIER, ...

I own PM 8.0, and I'll do what you suggest this afternoon. could be the most sensible suggestion that i have seen yet. I hope 'we have a winner!'.

Bill

[canipus]

Took the drive to another computer and reformatted it (to NTFS), eliminating any residual information.

Bill

That's not what I wrote. I wrote you need to delete and recreate the partition structure. That has nothing to do with formatting. U can format all u want till the Fat lady sings but it won't correct the partition table on the drive.

[Bill Park]

That's not what I wrote. I wrote you need to delete and recreate the partition structure. That has nothing to do with formatting. U can format all u want till the Fat lady sings but it won't correct the partition table on the drive.

I understand that. I 'got it' as soon as I read your longer message about the primary partition. (Not something that I have had to think about in a while...) That is why I said that I think we have a winner. What you are quoting here was a response to the question of residual info from previous OSes possibly being on the drive. no, because I wiped and reformatted the drive, creating a new partition when I did so. No data would remain. But it was not a PRIMARY partition. The drive is currently being secure erased and a primary partition being created as I write this, using PM 8.0. We are all on the same page. I haven't been working on my studio machines in a long time, so I haven't got it all in the front of my brain. But it is lingering back there somewhere... I don't know why I missed the primary part of the original message, just reading too quickly, i guess.

PM seems to work very slowly over the USB 2 port to the external drive enclosure, or maybe that is just the process of the secure erase.

Bill

[canipus]

just to follow up, (leaving no turn unstoned...) I tried another hard drive...same results.

Bill
then when you cold boot the computer with a bootable CD in the CD drive, after the POST do you get a screen prompt
..press any key to boot from CD

or does it just boot from the CD without any user intervention?

If the latter, your bios setting for boot order is incorrect and that will interfer with the windows install. After the virtual environment and copying has completed at the end of the first part of the install, the system reboots and then has to pick the boot initiation from the HD system partition and NOT the CDROM.
It means the BIOS is giving priotitisation to the CD drive over the hard drive.
The HD priority needs to be before the CDROM so that when the CDROM drivers are loaded after the POST, it recognises there is a bootable CD loaded and will give you a prompt to boot from the high priority hard disk partition OR the CDROM. If the CDROM is placed higher in the boot order then it will always boot from the CDROM if a disc is loaded (whether you want to or not).
The windows installation must be performed with the drive having the higher prioritisation in the boot order.

[Bill Park]

... your bios setting for boot order is incorrect ....

Okay, I'll change it. I don't remember ever having to change this in the past though. Thanks for the tip.

Bill

[jazzboxmaker]

Boy, at this point I think I might put the drive in another computer, install XP, stick it back in the HP and then run your driver setups for the HP. You may have to re-register XP. Not very elegant but it might get you in the door.

[Bill O]

Bill, here's what I do, and it has never failed me.

Catch it on it's first reboot. Plunk down your finger on the F2 key and bring up the BIOS. Navigate to the "Boot Priority," and make sure the first one listed is hard drive. You shouldn't get caught in that endless loop of .cab loading etc., and the system will access the CD ROM when in it needs it.

[Leadfoot]

i think you need to erase the mbr. the master boot record. i can't remember how, it's a dos string.. but after you do that, it will automatically create a new one from whatever system it's in. i think i had this happen before. it's worth a shot.

tony

[Pedro Itriago]

... i think i had this happen before. it's worth a shot.
...and if it's still going on afterwards, then your machine's worth a shot

[johndale]

It's starting to sound like it is easier to just buy a new drive, and be done with it. I think that is what I would have done 2 pages ago. I reinstall twice a year just to stay clean, so I have been thru this many times. This is a weird one. Well that's what I'd do. But I also have 3 closets of half working computer and audio gear. Which I keep telling myself (and wife) are assets.
John

[Bill Park]

It's starting to sound like it is easier to just buy a new drive, and be done with it.

Tried two different drives.

And the whole issue with me is the girlfriend not wanting me to spend any money. -I- would have bought a new computer three weeks ago.

Bill

[jazzboxmaker]

Bill, Have you checked the bios settings on this thing. Some security setups in Bios prevent MBR writes which will stop you dead in your tracks.

[Bill Park]

Bill, Have you checked the bios settings on this thing. Some security setups in Bios prevent MBR writes which will stop you dead in your tracks.

I'll check. Giving it a rest this weekend, as I have boxes and boxes of crap from my house that I am trying to sort out. (sigh...)

Bill

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Tried two different drives.

And the whole issue with me is the girlfriend not wanting me to spend any money. -I- would have bought a new computer three weeks ago.

Bill

Maybe she wouldn't notice if you just bought a new motherboard and stuck it in the old case ;)

Dave Tosti-Lane

[Tim Miskimon]

Maybe she wouldn't notice if you just bought a new motherboard and stuck it in the old case ;)

Dave Tosti-Lane
I've done that a few times...;)

[Bill Park]

Maybe she wouldn't notice if you just bought a new motherboard and stuck it in the old case ;)

Dave Tosti-Lane

Believe me Dave, it WAS a consideration. But I bought memory... the WRONG memory... without her knowing. Fortunately a forum brother here saved my ass on that one.

Of course, now having used Partition Magic to repartition the hard drive, tried to install windows and had it fail again, took the drive back to the other computer and tried to read it on PM, and PM won't even open because it says that the disk is bad... well, that just pisses me off. Because the disk was perfectly readable before I touched it with Partition Magic, and now, magically, it is hosed.

So I have bought another drive. (sigh...) Yes, the dollar value is rapidly approaching a zero sun game verses buying a newer, much better machine. And in terms of man/hours/dollars, this is a Pentagon project.

And HP support is actually not that bad (I was surprised...), but useless for me. ("Bill, don't install your version of Windows XP, buy a retail version from us...." Yeah, sure. What is wrong with the unsused version that I have?)

Bill

[Microstudio]

Bill I upgaded my mothers Gateway and had no problems. But if you are not used to working on PC's you will find it can be frustrating, there are so many little tricks. I will only use XP or the software disk that comes with the drive to partions them, I have never needed Partion Magic.

It looks like you have figured everything out thou.....the next time will be easier..

[Bill Park]

Bill I upgaded my mothers Gateway and had no problems. But if you are not used to working on PC's you will find it can be frustrating, there are so many little tricks. I will only use XP or the software disk that comes with the drive to partions them, I have never needed Partion Magic.

It looks like you have figured everything out thou.....the next time will be easier..

Well, so far it has not worked this time.

Bill

[Microstudio]

Well, so far it has not worked this time.

Bill

Sorry I just read through the whole thread.....:(

I didn't see if you have tried a different CD player to load XP from, if not try that. One more thing.... take out everything from your PC and just have Monitor, Floppy and CD Player hooked up.

I had what is happening to you happen and it was the CD player causing the problem.

I also install XP starting with the 6 floppy install disks. Some CD players seem to have problems and this just takes the problem out of the equation.

You can make them by downloading this file. (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=55820edb-5039-4955-bcb7-4fed408ea73f&DisplayLang=en)

[Tree Leopard]

Bill - did you say this HP * Pentagon Approved * machine had Windows Me running on it before? If that's the case, the hardware just might not be able to "take" XP, no matter what you try.

Otherwise you could release a video of a high speed computer crashing into the wall of your studio ...

Andre

[jazzboxmaker]

Bill , If this is the Pavillion XG833 you were talking about before you should be fine to run XP. 1.1 gig Celery w/256mB ram right?

So she starts to install, it asks you where (which partition) you want to install to, starts file copy etc. then instead of booting from the H.D she goes back to the CD even if you pop the CD out right? (If the CD is out you eliminate the boot priority issue-no CD the machine will try to boot from the next device which should be your H.D. device 0)


OK- possible problems considering you tried 2 different working H.D.'s and the computer was working before:

1.) Windows Install CD is no good. it's copying a boot file that's screwey, H.D cant boot

2.) CD Drive is lousy- same result as above

3.) Security/Anti-virus is enabled in Bios preventing boot sector write. (this might generate an error during install but it's an easy thing to check the Bios and disable it) this would prevent boot files getting written

Finally James T. Kirk Kobiashi-Maru solution (Don't play fair with computer):
If you have another H.D. with XP on it or one that you can install XP onto in another machine, you can throw that in, boot up into windows then install your HP drivers on it. I've upgraded lots of machines this way, it's not like a brain transplant- ya don't have to worry about anti-rejection software or even social stigma like the motherboard's not gonna say "You're not putting that old thing into ME!" :)

[Bill Park]

Bill , If this is the Pavillion XG833 you were talking about before you should be fine to run XP. 1.1 gig Celery w/256mB ram right?


1.) Windows Install CD is no good. it's copying a boot file that's screwey, H.D cant boot

2.) CD Drive is lousy- same result as above

3.) Security/Anti-virus is enabled in Bios ...



Yeah, tried 2 different hard drives, tried 2 different CD drives, tried 2 different XP CDs, tried using the 6 disk floppy method (latest failure... setupreg.hiv could not be written....) and I don't have another machine with IDE from which I can onload XP and move. Great idea though. I wonder if I can create such a drive using Partition Magic and my USB drive enclosure... oh, and I did not forget F7 when the F6 question is asked.

Bill

[Microstudio]

Yeah, tried 2 different hard drives, tried 2 different CD drives, tried 2 different XP CDs, tried using the 6 disk floppy method (latest failure... setupreg.hiv could not be written....) and I don't have another machine with IDE from which I can onload XP and move. Great idea though. I wonder if I can create such a drive using Partition Magic and my USB drive enclosure... oh, and I did not forget F7 when the F6 question is asked.

Bill


Bill have you made the 6 floppy install disks like I said and installed that way?

[Bill Park]

Bill have you made the 6 floppy install disks like I said and installed that way?

Yep. No good. That is where I got the setupreg.hiv failure.


In fact, I just unwrapped a brand new hard drive, and ran through the 'regular' proceedure, and got the original failure.... looped back into the setup from the CD, even though the hard drive is ahead of the CD in boot priority. (sigh...)

Bill

[jazzboxmaker]

Bummer Bill

Maybe you have a bad cable or IDE controller onboard.
Will this bios let you boot from the second IDE controller Device 1?
Try putting the HD on the 2nd controller , different cable. Hey!wait...Check the cables you probably need a different cable than the one that came with the Pavilion. That probably uses a 40 but the new drive has a 80 wire.I've had to do cable surgery to get the new ones to fit the the old IDE connector on the Motherboard cause there's 1 pin thats blocked off preventing the new cable from fitting. Check it out. Otherwise man I'm stumped :confused:

[Microstudio]

I see you already asked.

[Bill Park]

Maybe you have a bad cable or IDE controller onboard.
Will this bios let you boot from the second IDE controller Device 1?
Try putting the HD on the 2nd controller , different cable. Hey!wait...Check the cables you probably need a different cable than the one that came with the Pavilion. That probably uses a 40 but the new drive has a 80 wire.

man I'm stumped :confused:

I have other cables, but there is no reason to suspect a bad cable, as the system works with the original hard drive just fine. But I'll try another one.

The Pavilion came with an 80 wire cable on the hard drive and a standard 40 on the 2nd controller (the CD. Yes, you can boot from it.)

"...man I'm stumped :confused: "

Yeah, me too.

Bill

[vanderblast]

Maybe it's a IDE setting probleme.

There's one hard drive, OK ?

In your bios setup, find the IDE detection menu, launch the detection : try to see if your drive is master (primary or secondary).

Also Try to boot with the CD unplugged.

[ambler]

This is a long shot... but when it tells you that the system will reboot in 15 seconds try removing the CD from the drive. The system will then at least try to boot from the hard drive and may give you a meaningful error message if it can't.

Mark

[Bill Park]

This is a long shot... but when it tells you that the system will reboot in 15 seconds try removing the CD from the drive. The system will then at least try to boot from the hard drive and may give you a meaningful error message if it can't.

Mark

Yes, operating system not found. (sigh....)

Bill

[Microstudio]

Bill there is a time when one just has to face the fact that he has been beaten.

Let it go and move on, PC's are to cheap to have to rack your brains over stuff like this.

Do something fun and beat that PC with a cinder block......:mad: .....:)

[Tree Leopard]

Bill - You've probably given this project a rest .. but FWIW, if you can sucessfully install & run Win98SE then that's at least something - you'll be able to see inside the system and run some quick diagnostics.

Andre

[johndale]

Bill do you have one of those "Ultimate Boot Disk" CDs? I've got a CD that can boot anything just about from the CD rom. You know what I'm speaking of and how to use it? If the ISO is not to big for my server (I forget the ISO size, it's large tho). It's an idea. I've booted machines with screwed BIOs and dead HDs with it. Then it has a bunch of diagnostic utilities right there on the CD. It has saved my rear end before.
John

[AcousticGlue]

Download memtest to a floppy and run it at bootup on your PC. You have bad RAM.

[Bill Park]

Download memtest to a floppy and run it at bootup on your PC. You have bad RAM.

I've had the original RAM in the machine, plus three replacement sticks from 2 different sources.

Bill

[Bill Park]

Bill do you have one of those "Ultimate Boot Disk" CDs? .... You know what I'm speaking of and how to use it? ....
John

You know, I got one of those a couple of years ago, and I don't know if I've ever used it. I'll have to rummage around a bit.

But for now I've restored the original hard drive and put the machine back together and in service.

It just doesn't make any sense, though. Having replaced the RAM, CD, hard drive, etc... and tried to load in from CD and floppy... it's just wierd.

Bill

[studio-c]

Maybe she wouldn't notice if you just bought a new motherboard and stuck it in the old case ;)

Dave Tosti-Lane
So this is our version of cheating on our wives/girlfriends? Wow, are we exciting guys or what? :) I do the same thing...

"Honey, is that Cramolin on your collar?"

Cheers,
Scott