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Oz Nimbus
05-25-2004, 10:25 AM
Greets all!

I've been using SSB for the last few months, and it's been great. My business has pretty much doubled since I made the switch over from Sonar. In fact, I've even got a client flying in from Sweden this July to come cut tracks in my little studio here in Windsor Ontario, Canada.

SS does so many things right, I can't complain. However, there is one feature I really miss from Sonar that isn't in SS. The channel EQ with a switchable graphic editor. Sonar got smart and added the Sonditus EQ to every channel, and if you double clicked it, it would give you a full graphic where you could grab and move shelves & bells. I got used to working this way, and it's the one thing that keeps me from using the SS channel EQ very much. I'm not saying it sounds bad... not at all. I'm just saying the EQ's interface is a bit on the clunky side when it comes to choosing frequencies. I'd much rather have a graphic view than a drop down menu of numbers.

Other than that, I don't really have any gripes. It's an outstanding program.

-0z-

TotalSonic
05-25-2004, 11:05 AM
Hi OzNimbus -
What you are wishing for already exists. It is a SAW native 3rd party plugin - the JMS Audioware Hi-Res EQ. It is fully automateable 7 band parametric eq with a graphic display - has shelving filters as an option (along with peak and hi & lo pass), it is incredibly efficient (just like RML Labs stuff), sounds excellent (64 bit floating point processing throughout). Highly highly recommended - usually the first thing I always reach for and one of the best $75 you could spend imho.

http://www.jms-audioware.com/eq_saw.htm

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Oz Nimbus
05-25-2004, 11:13 AM
Just checked it out.... it's sort of what I'm talking about. However, I already own the ultrafunk plugs, so I can get the same result. What I was suggesting was an update to the SS channel EQ.

AudioAstronomer
05-25-2004, 11:13 AM
Ive been having the opposite experience. I find that the simplicity of the built in eq makes it a breeze to use. much like the EQ on a console, the frequencies that are set work 99% of the time, and sawstudio's eq is fantastic sounding in its default state. I am totally loving it as opposed to wha tI feel are clunky "graphical" eq's that give you so many options and lackluster sound it becomes hard to concentrate on the song rather than operating the itnerface. just my experience :)

Like steve said, JMS has a wonderful EQ. Also companies like voxengo, elemental audio, waves, kjaerus, vb-audio have amazing eq's you can use as well. My favorites are the vb-audio plugins, wow!

Burkeville
05-25-2004, 11:56 AM
I think the eq interface is fine as well. I can see everything ok.

I WOULD like a tuneable shelf at least on the top. Then I don't have to use a plug in. The bandwidth (although it says Q) at 3 octaves isn't enough at the high freq. By the way Bob, IMHO the eq sounds very good.

Carey Langille
05-25-2004, 12:27 PM
I too enjoy the simplicity of the SS eq. If i need more control, or a prettier look then i use my elemental audio plugins.. They have a different eq sound, but compliment SS eq VERY well!..

Bob L
05-25-2004, 12:28 PM
The Hi and Lo Cut filters at the bottom of the built-in EQ are your shelves... with a nice sharp rolloff on either end. You can tune the frequency on each.

Again, realize that the built-in EQ is for the basic settings of most tracks... they are a wonderfully warm and rich sounding algorithm that should handle 99% of all basic EQ needs.

For extreme detailed adjustments, you should use one of the great EQ plugins that were mentioned in the other messages.

It takes time to constantly update and draw accurate EQ curves. I decided to not put that kind of display on each mixer channel because each time you move around or F-Key to another workspace, the overhead to re-display the console would have made it very difficult, if not impossible, to keep the screen re-draws out of the way of glitching low latency playback.

Bob L

Shawn
05-25-2004, 12:41 PM
I like the Channel EQ as is, it sounds great to me, and does the job 99% of the time, I've never been a fan of the graphic plot display anyway, and if I want hi or low shelving I just use a plugin, but after using SS for a while, I find that I don't really need to use shelving EQ nearly as much as I used to, and I think that it actually helps (by not using it on every track) to keep the overall hi end from becoming overbearing.

Dingo
05-25-2004, 12:53 PM
On a different note I have a feature request. I would love to see in SS Basic (because I own that) and all of the others is a feature that samplitude has which is amazingly useful. That is the ability to burn a backup copy of the project directly to cd from the project. It automatically calculates how many CDs you'll need and then goes and burns them, prompting you along the way to put in fresh CDs. It will also let you load other directories too so you can use to burn other folders outside of the project. Wadda ya think?

TotalSonic
05-25-2004, 01:03 PM
On a different note I have a feature request. I would love to see in SS Basic (because I own that) and all of the others is a feature that samplitude has which is amazingly useful. That is the ability to burn a backup copy of the project directly to cd from the project. It automatically calculates how many CDs you'll need and then goes and burns them, prompting you along the way to put in fresh CDs. It will also let you load other directories too so you can use to burn other folders outside of the project. Wadda ya think?

I agree session data backup creation to CD-R & DVD-/+R as a direct command in SAW would be a mighty nice feature also - although what I do right now is just keep everything in a single folder per project and use Ahead's Nero to make the backups - it's an awesome software to do exactly what you are talking about. http://www.ahead.de

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Bob L
05-25-2004, 01:20 PM
Would be nice, but Magix who now owns the Samplitude engine, I believe, has also bought up all kinds of companies with licenses to CD burner code and they have integrated into all their software... nice if you have the millions necessary to do that and keep up with every new CD burner protocol that comes out every week....

Sorry... none for me thanks. ;)

If you follow my example of keeping projects in their own folders or if you later use the Save and Trim functions to move all finished session components to a new folder, then any one of dozens of freeware or very inexpensive cd burner programs becomes a dream and a snap to do what you are asking... each one has its own unique set of features and will allow you to choose your favorites and also keep up with the changing technology.

In this way, I can stay focused on improving the audio editing software and not have to spend all my time chasing down every tech problem with every obscure CD burner that ever hits the market... just so you can make a backup from inside a SAW menu.

This is Windows folks... multiple apps on the taskbar at the same timne... its pretty easy to popup another app's menu and copy a folder to a CD. :)

Bob L

Dingo
05-25-2004, 02:00 PM
Don't have millions to spare? Sheesh what kind of place is this? ;) Good points.

Yura
05-25-2004, 04:09 PM
As it beginings about SS's EQs,
I had noted that EQ on the console has abs. equal algoritm as Studio plugin Equalizer has. Hasnt it?

Bob L
05-25-2004, 04:25 PM
Yes, the plugin EQ is the same with a few extra bands.

Bob L

Shawn
05-26-2004, 03:16 AM
Hey Bob, I have a question/wishlist item,

Could it be possible to make the record tap point switchable (just globally in the options menu), from just after the pre fader FX patchpoint to just after the mono switch in the input section of the virtual console?

This would allow stereo hardware input devices to still be split into seperate tracks as they are now, but would also allow you to use the virtual console's EQ, noise gate, and compressors for monitoring/live mixing without altering the recorded signal.

I understand that this might be a major PITA, but man... would that be nice!

:)

Bob L
05-26-2004, 09:00 AM
The console rotuing is already adjustable.

Look int the Mixer menu and you will see two options near the bottom of that menu.

One option will allow you to place the Pre-Patch point in front of the EQ and DYN section, to do just what you are asking.

The other option allows you to switch the order of the built-in EQ/DYN.

Each of these options are on a track by track basis, and you can easily create a Mix Template as a default if you want your console always routed in this manner. Otherwise, these routing changes are specific to each session Edl.

Have fun.

Bob L

Oz Nimbus
05-26-2004, 09:31 AM
Let me get this straight: You can set it up so you can use the console's dynamics & EQ on a live input, and still record the signal dry? Bob, you just made my day! Time to put my live rig together!

Naturally Digital
05-26-2004, 08:30 PM
The Hi and Lo Cut filters at the bottom of the built-in EQ are your shelves... with a nice sharp rolloff on either end. You can tune the frequency on each.

Bob, did you forget to put the :D after that statement? I know, I'm still getting used to this "web" forum' too. ;)


Again, realize that the built-in EQ is for the basic settings of most tracks... they are a wonderfully warm and rich sounding algorithm that should handle 99% of all basic EQ needs.

Well, hearing you describe it that way makes me want to use it more often...


For extreme detailed adjustments, you should use one of the great EQ plugins that were mentioned in the other messages.

Which is what I do 99% of the time...

So, I'll offer that I would reach for it more often (hence, showing it off to clients) if we had some kind of graph. (I don't know, call me "new school" or something... ) I wouldn't want to change the actual interface of the EQ, just would find a graph "view" useful. Whether it was a pop up or additional "EQ view" that chased the hot-track, it would give me more mileage out of SAWStudio's warm and rich EQ!

Only my 2 cents on this "EQ graph" topic...

Enjoying the ride!
Dave.

P.s. If people are looking for EQ plug-ins with nice graphs to work with, I personally recommend the VB audio as a very good one for detail work. Its zoom features are nice.

mghtx
05-26-2004, 09:05 PM
I like the EQ as is. If I want some other kind I'll use a plugin. I think the built in EQ is great sounding and it doesn't clutter the place up.

Naturally Digital
05-26-2004, 10:44 PM
Just to add...

At the same time, if the VST window chased the hot-track, it would make using EQ plug-ins more ergonimic.

Regards,
Dave.

Oz Nimbus
05-26-2004, 10:57 PM
Good idea, David. Add that to my request list!


-0z-

AudioAstronomer
05-26-2004, 11:19 PM
Just to add...

At the same time, if the VST window chased the hot-track, it would make using EQ plug-ins more ergonimic.

Regards,
Dave.

That is indeed a neat idea, but imagine in some of my projects where I have a heavily modulated guitar with 5-6 VST's!? The sudden slowdown when scrolling between hottracks just to display those VSTinterfaces would be cruel and unsual punishment!

Bob L
05-26-2004, 11:30 PM
My native plugins open in one window so as not to clutter the screen... they chase the hottrack... others that write native plugins for SS have that option or they can keep each instance in its own window.

DX and VST plugs do not have that option since the windowing is not controlled directly by SS.

Besides, many have spent extra money for dual monitors becuase they like to have plugin windows all setup and open at the same time on one monitor.

Personally, I work with no open plugins onscreen... too much clutter in my opinion... I simply use an F-Key setup that instantly displays the FX Choices view and both Pre and Pst patch views... when I need to adjust plugins, I simply F-Key and then slide through the tracks and popup the plugs one at a time... and then re-close them... this gives me back all my resolution for the console views and MT view and other important views like the Video Viewer.

Bob L

mghtx
05-26-2004, 11:35 PM
Great idea Bob.

Shawn
05-27-2004, 03:27 AM
Bob,

Thanks for the info on the console routing, I was aware of the ability to route the FX pre patchpoint pre EQ/dynamics, but figured that the record tap point didn't move with it. awesome flexability.. :D

Dingo
05-27-2004, 05:03 AM
just out of curiosity Bob, would it be possible or beneficial to have all of the saw graphics handled by the video card? Are they already? I don't know much about this stuff. Just curious.

Bob L
05-27-2004, 08:29 AM
Hi-speed graphics on PC's and Windows is a study that is way too big for this forum in this lifetime. :D

I'm always updating the screen draw code and there seems to always be more to do, especially as new video drivers and Windows constantly do the same.

As I add views and other screen details things get more complex also, especially with the multi-threads and multi-apps (like the plugins and MidiWorkShop) all fighting for the same screen pixels at the same time.

For now, I'd say things are pretty darn fast and very reasonablly stable in the graphics dept... I hope to be able to keep moving on to other things.

Bob L