MUAHAHAH hahah... hah.. ha.. mmmmmm

[AudioAstronomer]

Today I got sawstudio running in linux 100% with my edirol ua-1000 (not supported by linux) using XGL/compiz as well.

What does that mean? dynamically transparent windows in saw, beautiful shadowing, window management and a full virtual 8 screen work area. Not talking virtual desktop, speaking full 3d workspace.

search xgl on youtube for some demo's...

Trying to figure out how to take some video of this for you guys :) I even got remote working from a windows machine to the linux machine. Hrm... maybe i could setup a server for folks to vnc to and play with it? Not sure if i have a system that could handle the load...

[SoundSuite]

GEEK!
:D

[TotalSonic]

Robert -
I know this is asking a ton - but any thoughts as to putting together a tutorial on how a complete newbie to the Penguin could try also get a basic SAW-DAW running on top of a Linux OS?

Also - what kind of performance are you getting relative to the same session running on XP?

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Bill Park]

Robert -
I know this is asking a ton - but any thoughts as to putting together a tutorial on how a complete newbie to the Penguin could try also get a basic SAW-DAW running on top of a Linux OS?

Also - what kind of performance are you getting relative to the same session running on XP?

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Yes, for me these are the two issues. I am relatively reasonably versed in Windows and Windows issues. Taking on a new OS would require a stripped down "This Is Exactly What You Need To Know To Run SAW In Linux, AND Nothing You Don't Need To Know" tutorial, and I would have to have a compeling reason to jump off of this particular cliff other than some hate of microsoft. If I do not see a significant performance boost, the journey is not one that I need to take. (Making music being more important to me than geeking out... my geeking days are over. Loved them, but they're gone.)

Bill

[AudioAstronomer]

Performance isn't the greatest obviously... Not the point since I dont plan on using it :)

It works great out of stock suse 10.1. You must have windows installed on a mounted partition (should be done automatically by suse install).

Then type wine /path/SAWStudio/SAWStudio.exe

setting up xgl is another thing...

[Warren]

I know that Linux is more stable, and system configurable than microsoft,
but I'm with Bill Park on this one, learning to tweek a new OS is one thing but the embarisment of a failure and the confusion of its resolution in front of a paying customer is a fear I wish not to experiance.

Toying and Tweeking if fun, just not on a production machine.

But Hey have fun! Also I would like to hear more about your process, sounds great!

All the best

Warren
The Masters Tracks:)

[TotalSonic]

Yes, for me these are the two issues. I am relatively reasonably versed in Windows and Windows issues. Taking on a new OS would require a stripped down "This Is Exactly What You Need To Know To Run SAW In Linux, AND Nothing You Don't Need To Know" tutorial, and I would have to have a compeling reason to jump off of this particular cliff other than some hate of microsoft. If I do not see a significant performance boost, the journey is not one that I need to take. (Making music being more important to me than geeking out... my geeking days are over. Loved them, but they're gone.)

Bill

Bill -
Everything I have seen regarding previews of Vista - along with the general direction I see both MS and Apple going in - pretty much shows me that you don't need a crystal ball to see that the interests of the DAW user is not going to be best served by the future directions of these companies. And after dealing with some interruptions to my business due to activation schemes by both Waves & Sony there are indeed reasons that I stick with Win2k for my OS on all my DAW's to even this day. At some point I imagine a piece of hardware that I will want to run will force migration from this already 6 year old OS - but the idea of jumping to MS's latest offerings kind of makes me cringe.

I also have no interest in playing with OS's just for their sake alone - I just want to run the apps I need to do my work on. So for my own DAW's all I need is to run SAW, it's plugins, and a cue sheet compatible burning app.
But if the OS was stripped down to be optimized for DAW work, without activation scheme encumberances, and was freely available I would indeed be a happy camper. It seems to me that if one of these Windows shell emulators on top of Linux could be streamlined enough that the performance hit was minimized then it'd be a nice start towards this goal.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[antiClick]

Let him geek! :p:)
These linux boxes really pushes PC performace to 11.

Look that xgl desktop video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz_2vKq5cZk&search=xgl

[Bill Park]

Let him geek! :p:)
These linux boxes really pushes PC performace to 11.



All I ask is that someone show me this, on any given test PC. Better performance on Linux over the same hardware using Windows XP or 2K. More of something useful.

Bill

[Bill Park]

Bill -
...you don't need a crystal ball to see that the interests of the DAW user is not going to be best served ...

And after dealing with some interruptions to my business due to activation schemes...

I stick with Win2k for my OS on all my DAW's ...

I also have no interest in playing with OS's ...- I just want to run the apps I need to do my work on.

"...you don't need a crystal ball..."
agreed. Has been true since the begining. We are not their target audience.

"...activation schemes..."

Yep. Me too.

Chris Smith got me to change, and I've been more than happy with XP, though I was perfectly content to stay with 2k. Some OS stuff is easier, which we both agree don't need to be done very often, and there are third party products to bring most of it to 2k anyway.

"... I just want to run the apps I need to do my work on. ..."

Steve, your sentence structure is getting to be as bad as mine, but this is exactly my point. (Watch out, your spelling will go next...) I run apps. There is my interest. I have no interest in pissing around with the OS. ANY OS. So there has to be a payoff beyond just getting away from microsoft. If I have to, I can pull out one of my old copies of 2k and run for a long time... possibly to the end of my working carrer... without having to buy a new machine or hardware. What I already own is pretty darned good. If Linux brings faster, better performance, I could be interested in learning the ropes. But this ain't 1984, and it ain't no DOS 1.1 or TopView situation, and I am not getting down and dirty like that again. Just show me what I need, or leave me behind. I'm all about being selfish with my time these days. That is one of the few things that we cannot buy.

Bill

[Mark Stebbeds]

Chris Smith got me to change, and I've been more than happy with XP, though I was perfectly content to stay with 2k.

Me too. Now he runs everything on Linux, but not DAWs. It's a love hate thing with him and me.

Mark

[Naturally Digital]

We're just getting ready to set up a linux box here at the studio. I'm really looking forward to delving into this world!

Thanks Robert!
Dave

[mghtx]

Robert, I salute you! :) I tried for some time (a while back) to "get to know" Linux. It was fun....but I soon lost interest because of so many different versions, blah blah, etc. My attitude was "let someone else" help the Linux world mature a little. You're one of those and again....way to go.

OTOH......I'm still surprised that no company has released a DAW-friendly OS considering the obvious need. I think the customer base is there for the taking. And I think the money is there when combining the pro and home studio world. Not that it would be an easy thing to do really but....... When I say DAW-friendly I think all here know what I mean.....no BS crap. ( I'm aware of some of the apps available to help with this)

[Dave Labrecque]

Robert, I salute you! :) I tried for some time (a while back) to "get to know" Linux. It was fun....but I soon lost interest because of so many different versions, blah blah, etc. My attitude was "let someone else" help the Linux world mature a little. You're one of those and again....way to go.

OTOH......I'm still surprised that no company has released a DAW-friendly OS considering the obvious need. I think the customer base is there for the taking. And I think the money is there when combining the pro and home studio world. Not that it would be an easy thing to do really but....... When I say DAW-friendly I think all here know what I mean.....no BS crap. ( I'm aware of some of the apps available to help with this)

The big problem with an new OS is the "learning curve", or, rather, having to get comfortable with yet another piece of software, when we already know XP, for example, so well. Wouldn't it make sense for some enterprising geek to refashion XP to be lean and mean and whatever else needs to be done for audio production, then pay MS a license fee? Someone could do it for video too. And quilting. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)

[Jay Q]

then pay MS a license feeThere's the rub.

Jay

[mghtx]

Wouldn't it make sense for some enterprising geek to refashion XP to be lean and mean

That's been done I believe. I think one of the higher ups at cakewalk tried to get all the big players together one time to go to apple and MS and ask for a DAW-friendly OS. Whatever happened it was unsuccessful. :(

I don't like the idea of learning a new OS either and I can only imagine what a pain it would be to start from scratch on developing a new OS. As far as paying the fee, it would have to be passed on to the buyer, which happens with everything else anyway.

[Mark Stebbeds]

We're just getting ready to set up a linux box here at the studio. I'm really looking forward to delving into this world!



Same here. It's time to update. That usually means a new hot rod Windows box for the DAW, and the current DAW gets demoted to the office box, and the office box goes to charity. Everything is on a network, but this time around I'm thinking about a dedicated Linix server. We'll see how it goes. Gotta finish the project I'm on before I start changing everything.

Mark

[Warren]

You can scale down XP, 2K and 98 very well by using XPlite from XPlite.com
at about $50 not bad works very well , you still need to do the tweaks,but you can get rid of Iexplorer outlook express as well as a bunch of other junk.

Warren

[Mark Stebbeds]

The big problem with an new OS is the "learning curve", or, rather, having to get comfortable with yet another piece of software, when we already know XP, for example, so well. Wouldn't it make sense for some enterprising geek to refashion XP to be lean and mean and whatever else needs to be done for audio production, then pay MS a license fee? Someone could do it for video too. And quilting. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)

If all of the DAW and pro Video editing workstations on the planet disappeared tomorrow, MS and Apple wouldn't even notice, and if they heard about it on the news, wouldn't care.

It would not put a dimple in their bottom line.

Mark

[Eric]

Wasn't BeOS was supposed to be the OS for DAW's?

[Dave Labrecque]

That's been done I believe. I think one of the higher ups at cakewalk tried to get all the big players together one time to go to apple and MS and ask for a DAW-friendly OS. Whatever happened it was unsuccessful. :(

I don't like the idea of learning a new OS either and I can only imagine what a pain it would be to start from scratch on developing a new OS. As far as paying the fee, it would have to be passed on to the buyer, which happens with everything else anyway.

Well, the theory would be that it'd be priced so that they can sell it, right? Maybe the ecomonics just don't work out... :(

[Dave Labrecque]

If all of the DAW and pro Video editing workstations on the planet disappeared tomorrow, MS and Apple wouldn't even notice, and if they heard about it on the news, wouldn't care.

It would not put a dimple in their bottom line.

Mark

Yeah, I guess that's the rub. :(

[Jay Q]

Wasn't BeOS was supposed to be the OS for DAW's?Guess it's now WasOS. ;)

Jay

[Eric]

Guess it's now WasOS. ;)

Jay
:D
You got that right.
If I remember right, the RADAR's used BeOS. I may be wrong though.

[Microstudio]

Today I got sawstudio running in linux 100% with my edirol ua-1000 (not supported by linux) using XGL/compiz as well.

What does that mean? dynamically transparent windows in saw, beautiful shadowing, window management and a full virtual 8 screen work area. Not talking virtual desktop, speaking full 3d workspace.

search xgl on youtube for some demo's...

Trying to figure out how to take some video of this for you guys :) I even got remote working from a windows machine to the linux machine. Hrm... maybe i could setup a server for folks to vnc to and play with it? Not sure if i have a system that could handle the load...



Why? If SS runs perfect in XP or 2000...... why?.....Oooo I know.....because.

[AudioAstronomer]

Because there are some people who like to help push forward computing and bend the limits of what is possible. Sound familar (sawstudio?)

It's all and great that things work, when im working.. that IS what im after. When im done though, I like to try and move into the next generation bit by bit and give a helping hand if I can.

Windows Vista is looking to be a complete failure even by microsoft's own accounts so now is the time to start looking forward even if the reality of the situation may not be apparent for 4-5 more years. Id rather be ahead of the game than be behind it.

Oh also... because :)

[mghtx]

Because there are some people who like to help push forward computing and bend the limits of what is possible.

And thank God for it. :) Yeah, that Vista doesn't seem to be working out. All that time and effort and.....MONEY. For what? Maybe they're having trouble coding in their secret back doors without it looking like a back door. :rolleyes:

[antiClick]

Why? If SS runs perfect in XP or 2000...... why?.....Oooo I know.....because. IMHO nowadays the software engineering is still very primitive. Just compare it to hardware eng. and you will understand what I say. I mean, it's good that there are zillions of ways to accomplish the same thing; but good engineering rules are needed to conform OPEN standards between components. OOP is a nice concept that will have to evolve... but at the moment I feel like we have moved nothing more than a few feets.

Many people think that the problem is in the origin.... the spreadness of ideas is cutted by copyright laws protecting the source code.

Protect the source code? What's that? .....This means you can buy a fridge, but can't buy a software (just get a license). All in all it's nonesense.... it's like paying for a car with no permission to repair it, or paying for a book with no permission to lend it, or tell the story to anyone.

Furthermore, this seller-buyer nodes schema will irremediably collapse as far as every node will become an information spreader, and then open source will be the only logical way to build something. And you won't pay for a product, but for a service.

That's because Open Source means the inevitable future: better non-intrusive apps that will evolve much faster, with less bugs for a fraction of the price, and spreaded through OS integrated internet repositories.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that SAW should be ported or become open... just describing what I think the future will be in terms of sharing the information.

That's what GNU license aims for today.
That's because, sooner or later, you will have a LinuX OS based at home.... it simply evolves much faster, and it's free.

first step here: http://www.ubuntu.com/
....................http://www.ubuntustudio.com
....................http://www.ardour.org

PD: if you have an old machine like my P2, goto http://www.xubuntu.org/ . This distro includes one of the most lightweight desktop enviroments ever made.

[Carl G.]

a full virtual 8 screen work area. Not talking virtual desktop, speaking full 3d workspace.
search xgl on youtube for some demo's...

My younger son demonstrates that to me on his machine....
a very impressive desktop space in 3d.
However, in the studio I've recently grown accustom to a dual monitor setup (I only use the second monitor for plugin, Video, or WordProc reading space = because SS navigation is SO good, one monitor for SS Console-MT is perfect for me).

[Pedro Itriago]

Protect the source code? What's that? .....This means you can buy a fridge, but can't buy a software (just get a license). All in all it's nonesense.... it's like paying for a car with no permission to repair it, or paying for a book with no permission to lend it, or tell the story to anyone.

It's no nonsense. It's also the same in hardware. Whenever you have a hardware with custom or propietary technology you'll find reverse engineering a little bit tricker tahn on products using known solutions and tricks to built the hardware.

Where do you think the terms reverse engineering and black box (just to name 2) come from? software? think again...

I did it when I was into developing pro audo hardware. Silicon goo, erasing chip names and serials among other tricks. Those where thing that could stop most but not those really in the know. The same way it happens with software now.

So yes, propietary code belongs to the guy who fried his head coming with the solution to an problem. The fact that some developers feel altruist by giving their code or hardware solution away for free for the "good of humanity" it's their choice, not their duty.

Try building a moog filter or an arp filter (mutual suits notwitstanding). Nowadays it's textbook filter desing, but they were damn right in copyrighting and securing their designs.

[Pedro Itriago]

Two quasi OT comments here.

Eric, thanks for changing that napoleon dynamite avatar

And...am I they only one that gets dizzy while scrolling thru this thread thanks to its subject text?

[Eric]

Eric, thanks for changing that napoleon dynamite avatar

It was starting to creep me out too.:eek:

[AudioAstronomer]

first step here: http://www.opensuse.org (http://www.opensuse.org/)


Yes, I completely agree :D

The latest version of suse is very click and go. Ubuntu is still a a bit linux-geek centric...

I normally cant stand bloated OS's with lots of gadgets and 'easy to do' crap, but novell has done some very wonderful things with suse.

BSD still owns all though.

[antiClick]

first step here: http://www.opensuse.org (http://www.opensuse.org/) LOOLLLL :D:D
Suse? I should first cure my apt-get addiction ;)

[AudioAstronomer]

suse supports apt-get, as well as rpm's, deb (indirectly) and SMART package management.

[studio-c]

I also have no interest in playing with OS's just for their sake alone - I just want to run the apps I need to do my work on.
Steve Berson
Me neither, but I'm glad somebody's wanting to do it. In this forum we run the gamut as far as interests and areas of expertise. It's pretty cool. Which is probably why you can post a question on ANYTHING and get several good solid answers within an hour. Both you and AA have been ENORMOUSLY helpful over the past couple of years, as have many people. A long way of saying, thanks guys...

Scott

[bcorkery]

you can post a question on ANYTHING and get several good solid answers within an hour. ... Along with a few real knee slappers, hun? :)

[studio-c]

... Along with a few real knee slappers, hun? :)
That's true, babe.

(Beavis: Huh huh-huh he said "hun".)

Yep, that's at least half the reason I read this with my coffee every morning. The other reason is to spy on you... :)

Lunch soon?

Scott