Another Crazy/Stupid idea

[Dingo]

I was using the levelizer the other day on the master fader and I noticed that the right channel was a bit louder than the left one. Would it be possible, Bob, to make a version of the levelizer that would allow you to adjust each channel independently? Different Gate, compressor, and limiter settings for left and right?

[Marvin]

If you close your eyes and listen to the mix, is the difference still there? And if so, is it a problem?

I'm not saying that you are, but a lot of people seem to be mixing more with their eyes than their ears....

My 0.02 SEK (our currency in Sweden. 1 SEK is worth about 1/8$.... ;) )

Marvin

[Veit Kenner]

Would it be possible, Bob, to make a version of the levelizer that would allow you to adjust each channel independently? Different Gate, compressor, and limiter settings for left and right?
You can do this right now. You just have to place your stereo file on two tracks and use either just the left or the right channel signal (I/O area in the channel strip). Then insert Levelizers to each track and adust differently.

Note that you are treating a stereo signal completely independent. This may cause some strange listening results in the stereo image.

Veit

[Bob L]

Splitting fx processing to left and right only is something I am looking into for 4.0.

In the meantime... simply try adjusting the pan on the master out track slightly to the left to create your balance.

Bob L

[Brent Bennett]

Note that you are treating a stereo signal completely independent. This may cause some strange listening results in the stereo image.

This is how things used to be done on records. Two mono devices each handling a different side. I think it gives it a better image myself.:)

[TotalSonic]

Most mastering engineers I know of using the Waves L2 as a brickwall limiter prefer to use the hardware version over the software version mainly because the hardware version has a button on it for unlinked L/R processing, and most I've talked to generally feel that results are more transparent to the source using it unlinked. So while you can mult out the software L2 (or any other limiter you wish to use, such as the Levelizer) to different mono tracks to achieve the same effect - having the option built into the plugin would definitely increase the efficiency of work flow for setting up unlinked processing - which in many cases can be a beneficial way of working.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Carl G.]

This is how things used to be done on records. Two mono devices each handling a different side. I think it gives it a better image myself.:)
Apparent shifting images during independent compression each side all depends upon content/mix.
I've found that in a majority of Contemporary and oldies rock... mild (gain compensated) independent compression helped it 'cook' a little more from the sides.
On the otherside (no pun intended... well maybe slightly:) ) when I used 'linked' compression, in some circumstances it messed up the mix by unnaturally over compressing a week channel when the opposite channel was undergoing transients, etc. - a bothersome effect.
So... between a mild image shift as compared to innappropriately applied compression to a week signal... I do like the choice of "UNLINKING" channels - (again, depending on content/mix).

[studio-c]

When doing analog transfers (symphonic for ballets) where I need to mess with the compression for theatrical reasons (otherwise I'd NEVER compress orchestral music!), I use two LA-2A's unlinked. There are often cases where one side is doing something and you'd hate to be ducking an innocent bit of program because of what it's neighbor is doing. Bloody horns and tympiani. Stomping on the violins like that.

Gotta admit, I've gotten lazy when it comes to doing the same in SAWStudio. Just been slapping a single effect on there. Thanks for the wake up call. :)

Scott

[Bob L]

You must realize that the SS comps and gates and the Levelizer are handling each left and right channel independently as if they were two mono comps... the same settings, but each key signal is handled separately... so something that triggers the threshold on the left is not triggering the signal on the right.

Bob L

[Dave Labrecque]

You must realize that the SS comps and gates and the Levelizer are handling each left and right channel independently as if they were two mono comps... the same settings, but each key signal is handled separately... so something that triggers the threshold on the left is not triggering the signal on the right.

Bob L

Really???? :eek: That surprises me, because of the resultant potential for compromising the stability of the stereo image. But I guess, as has been stated here, there are compromises either way.

[Dave Labrecque]

When doing analog transfers (symphonic for ballets) where I need to mess with the compression for theatrical reasons (otherwise I'd NEVER compress orchestral music!), I use two LA-2A's unlinked. There are often cases where one side is doing something and you'd hate to be ducking an innocent bit of program because of what it's neighbor is doing. Bloody horns and tympiani. Stomping on the violins like that.

Gotta admit, I've gotten lazy when it comes to doing the same in SAWStudio. Just been slapping a single effect on there. Thanks for the wake up call. :)

Scott
Scott,

And you don't worry about the stereo image moving around for those instruments common to both channels (which is pretty much all of 'em, I'd think)? Even dual mono comps are hitting the instruments you don't want to hit, since they're in both channels. But in addition to that, you also have the stereo image issue.

Hey, what do I know? Your ears seem to be happy with the result, so I'll defer to that. :) I'm just surprised that it's not more of a problem (as seen from my armchair theoretical perspective).

[Bob L]

Theory and actual reality differ many more times than not in my experience. :)

Bob L

[studio-c]

You must realize that the SS comps and gates and the Levelizer are handling each left and right channel independently as if they were two mono comps... the same settings, but each key signal is handled separately... so something that triggers the threshold on the left is not triggering the signal on the right.

Bob L

Doh. That's right. I thought for a minute that I'd been messing things up all this time. What a horrible thought. Whew!

Really though, this processing is just for theatre performances where your soft passages become inaudible due to the acoustics and ambient noise (dancers can't hear their entrance cues!), and you don't want to scare the heck out of people with the fortissimos. Plus, the LA2As are pretty gentle if used in moderation. I'm not slamming them or anything. I hate to do it at all, it's a desperation measure. And stereo imaging in a venue is secondary to the performers being able to function. Always a trade-off...

But there are times where linked and unlinked channels are both appropriate, obviously.

[Ian Alexander]

Considering that very few seats in a theater are in the stereo sweet spot, some sound guys send mono to all speakers. And the trend in installed systems is to have one giant speaker cluster hung above the center of the stage or altar area.

[Bob L]

Back in the mid 80's Arty Congero and I did the Paul Anka show for years using cross delay stereo techniques in Live theatre... we caused a lot of comotion with those live mixes... the idea works very well when you pay attention to details.

The idea was that the cross delay of every instrument ends up in both sides of the stereo image across a large theatre... those people sitting in the center of the theatre received a very wide beautiful stereo image because your ear tends to hear the original attack instrument first and places that in its perspective left or right image position... those people sitting closer to one side or the other of the theatre heard more of a full mono mix the closer to the edge you sat because all instruments were in both channels and the slight delay (12-20 ms) was not perceived.

Sitting dead center was quite an interesting experience. :)

Bob L

[Warren]

I'm for independant stereo limiting, even in large sound reenforcement venues I would use independant limiting after each output of the x-overs just in case the kick came thumpin in, the guitars would not be squashed.

Its a bit OT but the same principel applies:D

Warren