Signal Routing Help Please!

[Mike Bizanovich]

Folks:

I'm having difficulty getting signal routing straight related to providing more-me headphone mixes for overdubs.

I've read many, many threads about this but none (at least none that I've found) take me through the process step by step.

I'd like to use the aux sends to provide the more-me tracks.

If someone would give me a step by step, button by button walkthrough, I think I might get it through my thick head.

Assume a stereo drum track on Multitrack 1 and the goal is to provide the drums with a more-me mix to a bass and guitar player recording on Multitrack 2 and 3 respectively.

I'm using a Hear Back personal monitor mixer system. I am able to route a mix to any and all of the 8 channels it's capable of handling using the device outputs, but only from playback of multitrack channels that already have material recorded on them.

What I'm looking for is to be able to hear the already recorded drums AND the bass and guitar as they're being recorded through the headphones.

I'm sure I'm missing something quite simple, but at this point my head is spinning.

Thanks.

Mike Bizanovich
Wheeling, WV

[Microstudio]

Folks:


What I'm looking for is to be able to hear the already recorded drums AND the bass and guitar as they're being recorded through the headphones.



Thanks.

Mike Bizanovich
Wheeling, WV

Not sure what you mean?

[Bob L]

Mike,

Monitoring thru the virtual console requires your system to be capable of low latency performance of 3 x 128 or less buffer settings. In most cases, soundcards with good ASIO drivers will be able to do this.

Select the ASIO Driver Model in the Options menu... then select the soundcard.

You will have to set the latency in the driver setup... either from the SAWStudio Driver Model menu or from the soundcard mixer or driver applet itself.

Once this is set and you can playback tracks with no glitching at these low latency settings, then you are ready for the next step.

Direct thru monitoring will be much easier in the next version 4.0.

For now, you have to work a little harder.

You will use the channel input source set to the soundcard In device rather than the MultiTrack default setting.

Scroll to the top of the channel module and set the first channel to Input Device 1... then click next to the Mono button to open the popup menu of mono options... select L-Only.

Then set channel 2 to Device 1 again (these are stereo devices)... and select the mono R-Only.

Now you have the first two channels set as mono console inputs... exactly like a physical console.

If you now activate Live mode, you should hear the mic signals thru the console live and with very realtime latency.

In this mode, you can select track 1 and 2 to record... here you will set the record meter input source to point back to the mixer channels 1 and 2, instead of the devices themselves... channels 1 and 2 are already hooked to the in devices and the record meter will pick up the signal from the Pre-Patch point of the channel strip.

You can now also use the aux sends to create mixes of these channels (use Pre mode)... jump to the Aux Master channels on the top of the Return tracks by clicking the R zone in the bottom left corner of the MT.

Set Aux Master 1 as a device out... probably device out 2 (since you will probably be listening to device out 1 as the main playback mix bus). Now the aux sends will feed th soundcard device directly and then feed your headphones.

If you set up the channels across the console in this manner... chan 3 and 4 set to device in 2... L and R... then on and on....

When done you can save a MIX Template and start a new session at any time and simply apply the mix template to have the entire setup in one second.

You can also use the Pre-Patch signal routing option in the Mixer menu to force the Pre Patch point in front of the EQ and Dynamics... by doing this on all the channels, you can eq and use gates and comps for your monitor and the aux sends, while still recording a flat sugnal.

The only thing to be aware of with this configuration is that playback of the recorded regions is now mute because the channels are asigned as input devices.... so when you playback to hear what you recorded... use the Shift-Key... this temporarily overrides the input assignment and forces all back to MT. When thru recording... set the channels back to MT source.

In 4.0, you will have the option of Tape-Style monitoring which will automatically switch to MT playback until you punch-in, which then swtches to the input devices.

There is more you can do for reverb routing to the phones also.

See if you can get this working.

Good Luck,

Bob L

[Mike Bizanovich]

Bob:

Thank you so much. I spent lots of time reading and asking questions in the forum as I put the system together. After struggling with some PCI latency issues early on, I now have a very robust machine and am able to get glitch-free recording and playback with low latency. I have the RME HDSP9652. A question though, I am running the "Standard Multimedia" driver model... Is that OK or should I use ASIO?

I ran through your process on my laptop here at work and it makes sense (even to me). I'll try it at home in the studio tonight and report back. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

- Mike

[Bob L]

I use the Hi Performance MME with my RME cards.

If doing a live console type application where you may be switching apps during the process, you may have a more stable arrangement using the ASIO driver model... it seems Windows may interrupt the MME threads when switching apps at low latency.

Bob L

[UpTilDawn]

I use the Hi Performance MME with my RME cards.

If doing a live console type application where you may be switching apps during the process, you may have a more stable arrangement using the ASIO driver model... it seems Windows may interrupt the MME threads when switching apps at low latency.

Bob L
Would that include changing focus to the TotalMix panel while using live mode? That may answer one of the issues I've had getting the latency really low and smooth.

DanT

[Bob L]

I have seen possible thread interruptions in the MME chain when switching to separate apps... that may include the TotalMix app.

Try the ASIO and see if it solves any glitch or latency slipping issues as you work around the system.

Bob L

[UpTilDawn]

I will try that next time I have the opportunity to run Live mode.

Thanks Bob.

DanT

[Mike Bizanovich]

Partial success!

I was able to monitor through headphones both previously recorded material and the new material as it was being recorded. I only did one channel at a time (added guitar then bass to an already recorded drum bed), but for some reason, I could only use Device 1 - Mono - Left Only. When I tried using "Right Only", I heard no signal. I will try this again later today to make absolutely sure something else wasn't changed???

Also, for whatever reason, the "live" material is significantly lower in volume than the prerecorded material.

I will continue to work on this, but at least I think I'm getting somewhere.

Thanks again.

- Mike

[Bob L]

When you select R-Only, make sure you now have moved your input signal to the next physical input on your converter...

As to level adjustment... use your external mic pre trim controls and adjust the signal feeding the record meters to get you just up into the red...

If you are monitoring thru the same track you are recording on, the the playback should be identical in level.

You can also force the level of the record signal higher using digiatl math on the record meter input menu, but its usually better to adjust the level on the hardware side.

Realize, when you playback the data after recording, you will have to use the Shift-key when engaging playback to force an override of the track's input assignment back to MT.

The new 4.0 engine does not have this linitation and can automatically playbackback and monitor switch to input on punch-in.

Bob L

[Mike Bizanovich]

When you select R-Only, make sure you now have moved your input signal to the next physical input on your converter...

Yep, that would be the problem. Yikes :confused:


As to level adjustment... use your external mic pre trim controls and adjust the signal feeding the record meters to get you just up into the red...

I will play with that some tonight.

Is "live mode" automatically engaged when I go into record mode? If I hit the "L" key before I hit a record button, I see the microphone icon, but when I hir the record button, it goes away. Things seem to be working though.

-Mike

[Bob L]

Yes... any time the engine is moving, Live Inputs are all active... so MT playback... SRP playback... the REC mode and REC/RDY.... Live Mode is just an extra way to activate the engine without having to have tracks and move the cursor down the timeline.

Bob L

[Mike Bizanovich]

Thanks Bob. Things are working just as you layed them out. I'm still using "standard multimedia" driver model though. I tried the hi performance model and my machine froze solid.

I will try the ASIO model soon, though the "standard" model seems to work ok for now.

Thanks again.

- Mike