Vari speed ? [Archive] - SAWStudio / SAC User Group

mikebuzz

09-26-2006, 05:38 PM

mikebuzz

09-26-2006, 06:08 PM

Ok dumb azz just opened Saw and SAW the varipitch function
HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!

LAter
Buzz
PS: thanks for all your help LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Bob L

09-26-2006, 09:14 PM

You can also use the Sonoris Varispeed to take an entire track up or down...

Or, build mixes of each track into one region per track, then you can use the built-in vari-pitch easily in Select Mode to change all selected regions at once.

Bob L

PieterS

09-26-2006, 10:49 PM

If you mean musical intervals, with the Sonoris PitchTime plugin you can use the semitone setting to adjust the right interval. For example:

a minor 3rd = 3 semitones
a major 3rd = 4 semitones
a 4th = 5 semitones
a 5th = 7 semitones

etc

mikebuzz

09-27-2006, 02:17 AM

Thanks Pieter I'll try the demo first to see if works for me , the quality of the transposition if formost

Later
Buzz

songwriterdemos

09-27-2006, 03:07 PM

Forgive me for my "green newbie-ness", but I wasn't aware that SAW had vari pitch, or is this a plugin you're referring to? :D

Pedro Itriago

09-27-2006, 04:03 PM

Forgive me for my "green newbie-ness", but I wasn't aware that SAW had vari pitch, or is this a plugin you're referring to? :D

Is inside saw in every channel, as well as an echo/dealy module. Is in sub-menu.

Bob L

09-27-2006, 05:20 PM

Right-Click on any region in the MT and popup the MT-Entry properties menu... this option allows you to place a diferent vari-pitch on each region... very useful option.

In most cases, I can handle almost all pitch problems on a vocal this way with much cleaner results... simply split the region at an out of tune note and then adjust the pitch.... in most cases the slight time variance is not a problem at all.

Bob L

Ian Alexander

09-27-2006, 06:52 PM

Hm, I thought it was Alt-Right-Click for the menu.:)

Dave Labrecque

09-27-2006, 07:25 PM

Hm, I thought it was Alt-Right-Click for the menu.:)

Picky, picky...

Ian Alexander

09-28-2006, 05:46 PM

Picky, picky...

:o

studio-c

09-28-2006, 09:12 PM

I just read a post from Cris Walla ( producer of Death Cab for Cutie ) and a trick he a had mentioned was to spped up the tracks to a 3rd , 4th or 5th and record the tracks then slow it back down !! Nice trick IMO .

How would I relate the % to a 3rd , 4th , 5th ????? what is the ratio ?

LAter
Buzz
The ratio between each 1/2 step (C to C#) is the 12th root of two. Multiply that by how many semitones you want to go up or down, and add that to the initial frequency. Got a calculator? You could do it easily in an Excell Spreadsheet. If your plugin has interval settings rather than absolute frequencies, it'd be easier. Very strange the stuff we remember from college. Wanna hear about logarithms? :)

I've been wondering if that Beck song "Girl" from last year, with the Beach Boys type harmonies was done this way. The main vocal sounded like it was "draggy". Very eerie sound.

Scott

Bob L

09-28-2006, 11:10 PM

Just use the vari-pitch option and go up or down the exact number of semi-tones you want... much easier that way. :)

Bob L

sebastiandybing

09-29-2006, 12:30 AM

And then it is possible to Xfade between regions with different speeds...
it gives some reel nice controlleble chorus/flanging efx. like coming from one speed to another and the back again doing a short phrase.

Sebastian

Dave Labrecque

09-30-2006, 03:33 PM

I've been wondering if that Beck song "Girl" from last year, with the Beach Boys type harmonies was done this way. The main vocal sounded like it was "draggy". Very eerie sound.
Other examples of recording while listening to P/B at the wrong speed:

The Chipmunks
1958's "Witch Doctor" (same artist, David Seville, aka Ross Bagdasarian)

Then there's Beatles stuff where they recorded at the right speed but played the whole dang thing back at the wrong speed, like "Strawberry Fields" (slow -- very draggy) or "Lovely Rita Meter Maid" (fast). That last one may just be my imagination. Paul may have been huffing helium that day.

Then, the grand-daddy of them all, where it appears that for each chorus they continuously slowed down the tape during recording, so that on playback the voice slowly goes from normal to that of an insane chipmunk: Napoleon XIV's classic " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They%27re_Coming_to_Take_Me_Away_Ha-Haaa%21)They're Coming to Take Me Away Ha-Haaa!" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They%27re_Coming_to_Take_Me_Away_Ha-Haaa%21) I always thought that was in ingenious application of the effect.

The ratio between each 1/2 step (C to C#) is the 12th root of two. Multiply that by how many semitones you want to go up or down, and add that to the initial frequency.
I think you're missing a step. This would add the same number of Hz to A440 as to A880. And dat ain't right.

Very strange the stuff we remember from college. Wanna hear about logarithms? :)
Isn't that simply a misspelling of 'algorithm'? :confused:

studio-c

10-01-2006, 10:32 PM

I think you're missing a step. This would add the same number of Hz to A440 as to A880. And dat ain't right.

It's a multiplier, so yeah something's incomplete there. Anyway, that was more serving as goofy trivia than anything. It's easier just to find an app with interval clicks :)

Dave Labrecque

10-02-2006, 01:55 PM

It's a multiplier, so yeah something's incomplete there. Anyway, that was more serving as goofy trivia than anything. It's easier just to find an app with interval clicks :)

It's true what you say.

Mark Stebbeds

10-02-2006, 04:15 PM

Then there's Beatles stuff where they recorded at the right speed but played the whole dang thing back at the wrong speed, like "Strawberry Fields" (slow -- very draggy)

Not only did they experiment with recording and playing back at different speeds, the final take was edited together out two takes of different tempos and different keys, each slowed down or speed up to match somewhere in between.

As a fan of "The Beatles Recording Sessions", you may be interested in this....

www.recordingthebeatles.com

I just ordered one. I had been waiting for mine to be delivered until I figured out I never ordered the advanced copy. Or maybe I did and I'll get two.:)

Mark

Dave Labrecque

10-02-2006, 06:36 PM

Not only did they experiment with recording and playing back at different speeds, the final take was edited together out two takes of different tempos and different keys, each slowed down or speed up to match somewhere in between.

I remember reading where the exact edit point is. I never noticed it till I looked for it. I think George Martin said it always jumps out at him when he hears it. Or was that something else?

As a fan of "The Beatles Recording Sessions", you may be interested in this....

www.recordingthebeatles.com (http://www.recordingthebeatles.com)

I just ordered one. I had been waiting for mine to be delivered until I figured out I never ordered the advanced copy. Or maybe I did and I'll get two.:)

Mark

If you get two, I'll only charge you $25 for the honor of shipping your extra copy to me. :) Meantime (not holding my breath on that), I'm putting it on my Christmas list. My mom loves getting Beatles stuff for me.

It looks very cool, indeed. I never thought "Recording Sessions" could be outdone. But we shall see... Thanks for the heads-up.

Bruce Callaway

10-02-2006, 07:52 PM

Strwaberry Fields Forever is a great example of this and it is relatively easy to pick which recording is slowed down and which one is sped up.

Mark Stebbeds

10-10-2006, 03:04 PM

As a fan of "The Beatles Recording Sessions", you may be interested in this....

www.recordingthebeatles.com

I just ordered one. I had been waiting for mine to be delivered until I figured out I never ordered the advanced copy. Or maybe I did and I'll get two.:)

Well, it came on Saturday and it's OUTRAGEOUS!!. The history of the studio, the equipment, the people that worked there, the production techniques. Absolutely awesome book, and the packaging is really cool too.

An excellent compliment (and much more elaborate and detailed) to "The Beatles Recording Sessions", if that's still in print.

Mark

Rabbit

10-10-2006, 03:31 PM

Fantastic book Mark! Mine came about 3 weeks ago, well worth the $100 price tag, but somehow I think SS 4.0 will be an even bigger bargain at that price. :D

Dave Labrecque

10-11-2006, 07:27 PM

Well, it came on Saturday and it's OUTRAGEOUS!!. The history of the studio, the equipment, the people that worked there, the production techniques. Absolutely awesome book, and the packaging is really cool too.

An excellent compliment (and much more elaborate and detailed) to "The Beatles Recording Sessions", if that's still in print.

Mark

Mark,

Are there any explanations of how they went about getting more detail than "Recording Sessions"? I'd understood that that one dude went through all the old paper records and reel boxes and stuff in the EMI vault. What more could there be? :confused:

Mark Stebbeds

10-11-2006, 10:16 PM

Mark,

Are there any explanations of how they went about getting more detail than "Recording Sessions"? I'd understood that that one dude went through all the old paper records and reel boxes and stuff in the EMI vault. What more could there be? :confused:

It's a different format Dave. The Beatles Recording Sessions were like a chronological acccounting of the recording sessions based on tape box logs and session notes.

The new book is more about the facility, the gear, and the people. Check out the web page and take a look at the table of contents. There's an entire chapter just on the effects. Several pages just on the floor plans and components of the live echo chambers.:)

Mark

Mark Stebbeds

10-12-2006, 04:12 PM

Mark,

Are there any explanations of how they went about getting more detail than "Recording Sessions"? I

There's an entire chapter just on the effects.

And man, after reading that section, particulary on "ADT" and tape flanging and chorusing... I'm drooling at the possibilites...and actually getting...well....er...quite aroused...:o

Mark

Tim Miskimon

10-13-2006, 10:42 AM

Strwaberry Fields Forever is a great example of this and it is relatively easy to pick which recording is slowed down and which one is sped up.

Only since it has been pointed out to us. Had it not been pointed out I don't think anyone would have ever known.
Just like the splicing of parts on Good Vibrations - no one really picked up on that for years until it was meantioned in an interview.

Dave Labrecque

10-13-2006, 01:52 PM

And man, after reading that section, particulary on "ADT" and tape flanging and chorusing... I'm drooling at the possibilites...and actually getting...well....er...quite aroused...:o

Mark

I remember reading about the "Automatic Double Tracking" they came up with at EMI. Wasn't that something with using a second reel to reel machine and vari-pitch?

Cool that the stuff they were doing way back then is still so fascinating today. I've always been a big Beatles cheerleader, but sometimes when I step back for a minute it seems like they actually did some innovative stuff! :)

Mark Stebbeds

10-13-2006, 02:18 PM

I remember reading about the "Automatic Double Tracking" they came up with at EMI. Wasn't that something with using a second reel to reel machine and vari-pitch?

Yes, except it starts out by taking the signal off of the sync head of the four track while mixing off of the playback head, so the signal is in advance before being routed to the tape delay machine. When you get into the details it's quite ingenious with the different head spacing, different tape speeds, and VSO. And it's a sound that can't be duplicated with digital delays.

Cool that the stuff they were doing way back then is still so fascinating today. I've always been a big Beatles cheerleader, but sometimes when I step back for a minute it seems like they actually did some innovative stuff! :)

Ya think? :) Indeed.

Mark

Dave Labrecque

10-13-2006, 03:26 PM

Yes, except it starts out by taking the signal off of the sync head of the four track while mixing off of the playback head, so the signal is in advance before being routed to the tape delay machine. When you get into the details it's quite ingenious with the different head spacing, different tape speeds, and VSO. And it's a sound that can't be duplicated with digital delays.

Ya think? :) Indeed.

Mark

OK... how cool is that? I think the natural "unexactness" of the reel/tape machinations provided some subtle variations in the doubled signal, no? I remember reading an interview with George Martin. He told about the time that John had "rung him up" from the studio in NYC where they were doing vocal overdubs or mixing or something for Double Fantasy. John was saying they weren't able to get the same doubling effect (if I remember this right) using a digital delay as they used to using tape. And Martin just said something like, "Yep. That's right. It does sound different."

He probably also thought to himself, "Listen you b*st$rd, next time you and your producer call me for some free advice, you can just..." :p

Mark Stebbeds

10-13-2006, 03:32 PM

OK... how cool is that? I think the natural "unexactness" of the reel/tape machinations provided some subtle variations in the doubled signal, no?

Absolutely. And the ability to have the "double" slightly in advance of the main created an interesting option. Or both.

Studers are the only tape machines that had seperate output amps for the sync and playback heads, and they carried it through over years. On the A800 they were switchcable at the push of a button.

Mark

Dave Labrecque

10-14-2006, 01:00 PM

Absolutely. And the ability to have the "double" slightly in advance of the main created an interesting option. Or both.

Studers are the only tape machines that had seperate output amps for the sync and playback heads, and they carried it through over years. On the A800 they were switchcable at the push of a button.

Mark

What was the advantage of the discrete amps?

Mark Stebbeds

10-14-2006, 02:35 PM

What was the advantage of the discrete amps?

I think in the early four track machines, it was to allow a seperate headphone/studio mix from the control room mix before consoles had multiple aux sends.

In the later multi-track models I can only imagine the need for two outputs on each channel. My guess would be seperate mixes for live broadcasting, film and TV, patchable at the tape machine.

It sure has come in handy for effects however. During mixing, I frequently used the sync head with a digital delay to trigger a gate to open, to avoid chopping off the attack of the signal.

As I already mentioned Studer was the only manufacturer that providing two outputs on each channel.

Mark

Carlos Mills

10-14-2006, 05:11 PM

Hi Mark,

Very nice tip! Did you already receive yours?
I just ordered mine...

EDIT: Ops! I've just finished reading the whole thread... so nevermind answering me, but feel free if you would like to add some more info... :-)

As a fan of "The Beatles Recording Sessions", you may be interested in this....
www.recordingthebeatles.com
I just ordered one. I had been waiting for mine to be delivered until I figured out I never ordered the advanced copy. Or maybe I did and I'll get two.:)
Mark

D.Sullins

10-15-2006, 06:52 AM

I think in the early four track machines, it was to allow a seperate headphone/studio mix from the control room mix before consoles had multiple aux sends...
As I already mentioned Studer was the only manufacturer that providing two outputs on each channel.

New guy here. I have the "Recording the Beatles" book as well, and it explains a use for the separate outs. At Abbey Road, the people in the control booth always listened off the repro head so that they KNEW what they had on tape - they could hear if there was a drop-out on the tape and it kept them from thinking they were recording onto tape when they weren't. But the Beatles on the studio floor listened off the sync head, as would be neccessary when overdubbing. One of the engineers explains that on sessions at Abbey Road, it always looked like an out-of-sync movie when you observed from the control booth, because what you were hearing from the speakers didn't match what the artists were doing on the studio floor. It was always behind. Crazy! Also, the Telefunken four-track machines that preceded the Studer also had separate sync and repro outs...

TotalSonic

10-15-2006, 10:44 AM

As I already mentioned Studer was the only manufacturer that providing two outputs on each channel.

Well, just to be exacting, and I'm sure you already knew this, and they're indeed different in design than the decks you are referring to, but there were a bunch of mastering decks made by MCI & Ampex (along with Studer) that feature both "preview" and "program" heads and amps, giving you two outputs for each channel. The preview path would be fed to the lookahead pitch/depth computer on a cutting lathe (to set the height of the cutting head and the width of the groove) - with extra capstans so you could wind the tape an extra appropriate length for each of the tape speeds and cutting speeds - and the delayed program path would be fed to the cutting head. Simple but kind of ingenius.

My Sony/MCI JH110B is set up like this in fact - but I only use the program path for my current needs as unfortunately I don't get to use a lathe anymore.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Mark Stebbeds

10-15-2006, 10:55 AM

Well, just to be exacting, and I'm sure you already knew this, and they're indeed different in design than the decks you are referring to, but there were a bunch of mastering decks made by MCI & Ampex (along with Studer) that feature both "preview" and "program" heads and amps, giving you two outputs for each channel.

Right, I wasn't thinking about mastering decks, but multi-tracks.

Mark

Dave Labrecque

10-15-2006, 05:43 PM

It sure has come in handy for effects however. During mixing, I frequently used the sync head with a digital delay to trigger a gate to open, to avoid chopping off the attack of the signal.

No "look-ahead" processing back in the day? ;) Very ingenious. Or did you not invent that one?

Dave Labrecque

10-15-2006, 05:46 PM

New guy here. I have the "Recording the Beatles" book as well, and it explains a use for the separate outs. At Abbey Road, the people in the control booth always listened off the repro head so that they KNEW what they had on tape - they could hear if there was a drop-out on the tape and it kept them from thinking they were recording onto tape when they weren't. But the Beatles on the studio floor listened off the sync head, as would be neccessary when overdubbing. One of the engineers explains that on sessions at Abbey Road, it always looked like an out-of-sync movie when you observed from the control booth, because what you were hearing from the speakers didn't match what the artists were doing on the studio floor. It was always behind. Crazy! Also, the Telefunken four-track machines that preceded the Studer also had separate sync and repro outs...

Being a card-carrying white guy, I tend to look that way, anyway, when I play...