Plugin devleopment request!

[Oz Nimbus]

Hey all,

Since more & more of us are doing live work thru SAW, I was curious if anyone could develop a "feedback destroyer" plugin similar to the Berhinger rack unit.

I've looked at many plugs, but I haven't found one that can kill feedback instantly. I figure this would be a good safety net.

-0z-

[johndale]

Just what the world needs. A Behringer plugin. I find that funny at 3 AM. Would not latentcy kind of make that idea impratical? Seems to me? A Berhringer plugin, I'm sorry that's rich.
John

[DominicPerry]

Sonds like a useful thing to me, just don't need the downsample to 6 bits to replicate the "Behringer sound".:)

Maybe a poll. Who'd buy one? I'll set one up.

Dominic

[Craig Allen]

If you're only mixing (and not playing as well like I used to do), the Frequency Analyzer and JMS Hi-Res EQ make a great team for finding and eliminating feedback a whole lot better than a feedback destroyer unit.

[Leadfoot]

i just don't see the need for feedback eleminators. i've been doing live sound for a long time and at least a hundred shows this year alone. i can't remember once having feedback.. ever. if you have good gear and know how to use it, i think there should be no problems. plus i would imagine they would just kill the sound. the biggest problem i know of that causes feedback especially with amatuers, is cheap or oddball microphones. to this day i swear by 57's and 58's(for most stuff). if they're good enough for people like celine, aretha, whitney, bon jovi, blah blah.. they're good enough for me. i always cringe when these bands and singers bring their own mics like beta 57s and or condensers to sing thru.. nothing but problems. i have had a couple 58s go bad on me at fests, and strangely enough, i replaced them with behringer xm 8500s and to my amazement they kicked ass. my guess is they are a direct copy of a 58, and somehow they got it right. dare i say they might even be a little better especially in the area of gain before feedback. very suprising. but all in all, i think bad or incorrect mics are the number one culprit of feedback. if you are getting feedback problems with 57s and 58s, something else is very wrong. that could be a lot of things.

tony

[Oz Nimbus]

Fair enough. But, lately there's been a lot of clients coming in the studio complaining about local "sound guys." You know the usual stuff, crappy monitor mix where nobody can hear anything, general overall crappy sound, you name it.

Which leads me to believe there's a market for live sound work in my town. Unfortunately, I haven't done live sound in over 10 years. I want to put a live rig together & give it a shot.

For guys who do live sound constantly, a feedback destroyer wouldn't be needed. But, for guys like me who are trying to get back into it, (and I'm talking heavy metal shows here) it would be a safety net.

Thanks,
-0z-

BTW, it's not what's on the nameplate that counts.

[Tim Miskimon]

i just don't see the need for feedback eleminators. i've been doing live sound for a long time and at least a hundred shows this year alone. i can't remember once having feedback.. ever. if you have good gear and know how to use it, i think there should be no problems. plus i would imagine they would just kill the sound. the biggest problem i know of that causes feedback especially with amatuers, is cheap or oddball microphones. to this day i swear by 57's and 58's(for most stuff). if they're good enough for people like celine, aretha, whitney, bon jovi, blah blah.. they're good enough for me. i always cringe when these bands and singers bring their own mics like beta 57s and or condensers to sing thru.. nothing but problems. i have had a couple 58s go bad on me at fests, and strangely enough, i replaced them with behringer xm 8500s and to my amazement they kicked ass. my guess is they are a direct copy of a 58, and somehow they got it right. dare i say they might even be a little better especially in the area of gain before feedback. very suprising. but all in all, i think bad or incorrect mics are the number one culprit of feedback. if you are getting feedback problems with 57s and 58s, something else is very wrong. that could be a lot of things.

tony

Somehow I kind of think those Behringer mics are the Shure rip offs that were created in China about a year ago.
The plant got busted but I doubt if all those rip offs were destroyed. With Behringer's reputation of copying products by other companies such as Mackie it would be right up their alley. I doubt if they will hold up as well as the Shure stuff but one never knows.

[Leadfoot]

lately there's been a lot of clients coming in the studio complaining about local "sound guys." You know the usual stuff, crappy monitor mix where nobody can hear anything, general overall crappy sound, you name it.

Thanks,
-0z-


that's exactly why i started doing sound in the first place, i was tired of crap sound guys doing crap sound for bands, some of which i was in many years ago. doesn't matter how good a band you are, if the sound sucks, you suck.. so, out of necessity and frustration i started doing it. i'm more happy getting good sounds for bands than when i was playing. i am entirely tired of doing monitors from front of house tho.. which is at least 50 percent of the time.
i'm doing sound saturday night at a club called starbusters in dekalb IL. the room is big and very troublesome, but the place gets packed with 800 people cause it's right by the college. a feedback eliminator would undoubtedly do more damage than good in a place like that. but like i said, i have yet to need one, nor have i seen them in anybodys rig anywhere i've been. but i always manage to learn something i didn't know almost at every show, maybe for some situations and or operators, used correctly, i suppose it just might work..

tony

[Mark Stebbeds]

doesn't matter how good a band you are, if the sound sucks, you suck.. so, out of necessity and frustration i started doing it. i'm more happy getting good sounds for bands than when i was playing.

I find the opposite to be true. If the band is good, it doesn't matter if the sound sucks, which happens often enough. And if the band sucks, it doesn't matter how good the sound is.

Mark

[DominicPerry]

I will agree that Beta57s are the worst microphone I have ever heard. I can't use mine for anything at all, I can't say that for any other mic I've bought.

Dominic

[Naturally Digital]

I will agree that Beta57s are the worst microphone I have ever heard. I can't use mine for anything at all, I can't say that for any other mic I've bought.Seems to be another one in the recent trend to make super-ultra-hot (level) dynamic microphones. It's like speakers... They make them with high sensitivity so they sound impressive in an a/b or at first listen but they become tiring very quickly. I recently did a live recording where the singer was using an AKG that I wasn't able to pad enough to avoid clipping. :eek:

[Craig Allen]

Feedback destroyers are dangerous things - very dangerous. I used to only run one on monitors because sometimes I just didn't have time to deal with it (playing and mixing). Since I played many different venues, and didn't often have the luxury of a soundcheck or be able to ring out the room, it could be handy. Way back, I used to run one sometimes on FOH when I was having problems with a room, but it was a last resort thing. But one night I discovered it notched out the kick drum! So no more FOH feedback destroyer. I kept the one on monitors, but used it only when I had to.

[Leadfoot]

I find the opposite to be true. If the band is good, it doesn't matter if the sound sucks, which happens often enough. And if the band sucks, it doesn't matter how good the sound is.

Mark i guess you're right when i think about some of the beatles gigs where the crowd was so loud you couldn't hear the band.. so it didn't matter.
how about a better statement, it goes both ways. i've seen the same bands with and without good sound, and in most cases, the crowd was less than impressed with the latter.

tony

[Naturally Digital]

Feedback destroyers are dangerous things - very dangerous. I used to only run one on monitors because sometimes I just didn't have time to deal with it (playing and mixing). Since I played many different venues, and didn't often have the luxury of a soundcheck or be able to ring out the room, it could be handy. Way back, I used to run one sometimes on FOH when I was having problems with a room, but it was a last resort thing. But one night I discovered it notched out the kick drum! So no more FOH feedback destroyer. I kept the one on monitors, but used it only when I had to.I've used the DBX unit a couple of times. It's fun to play with but like Craig, I simply don't trust these units enough to rely on them. With a little practice it really doesn't take that long to properly ring out a room. I don't think I'll ever buy one myself but I get asked about these all the time. If someone is actually going to the trouble of bringing a computer to the gig, I'd suggest just using a spectrum analyser (if you don't feel you can set things up fast enough using your ears) and EQ.

Having said that, I think this would make a very 'saleable' feature. Especially for SAC. I'd need to see how well the algorithm works before using it myself. I've never had a problem with the old-school way unless I'm in a crowded venue and there's no time for a proper setup. Even then, you normally need to 'train' these automatic units for the room before the show starts and for that you still need a relatively quiet room.

Glenn, I was going to suggest one of the 'learning' FFT EQ plugs but the issue there is latency. I still think it might make for a fun experiment.