Post Fader effects patch

[Tim Miskimon]

Most of the time I patch channel effects in the pre fader section. Today I patched Mic Modeler into post fader on the lead vocal channel (which was panned left & coming back up output channel 8 left). I noticed that with Mic Modeler patched at the post fader point it was also returning through channel 8 right (which was the bass guitar return). Why is this? Shouldn't the channel pan control work with this plugin patched in pre or post fader? I removed the plugin and everything returned to normal.
What am I missing here?

[Larry Burger]

Tim:

What input was the channel (Lead Vocal) on, multi or an input?

[Tim Miskimon]

I always leave it set on multitrack.
The thing that puzzles me is that I tried it with the Saw Echo plugin and it worked fine. I'm wondering if this plugin is outputting stereo - but it works fine on the pre fader patch point.

[Bob L]

The plug may be working like most rack gear these days... the left input alone may be taken as a mono input and then used for both channels... so the plug is outputting on both sides.

If you patch a plug post, it is taking the signal after the pan and fader.

I am confused as to why each instrument is not on its own track though... when you say chan 8 L and R are two different instruments.. what is that about?

Bob L

[Tim Miskimon]

The plug may be working like most rack gear these days... the left input alone may be taken as a mono input and then used for both channels... so the plug is outputting on both sides.

If you patch a plug post, it is taking the signal after the pan and fader.

I am confused as to why each instrument is not on its own track though... when you say chan 8 L and R are two different instruments.. what is that about?

Bob L

Bob,
I was talking returns. I have every instrument on it's own track in SAW. I output assign those thru the 12 stereo outputs (24 mono channels back to my outboard console - output channel 8L being channel 15 - output channel 8R being channel 16 and so on.
I was just confused as to why if I patch this plug in in the pre fader section it will only show up at the output I assign it to - in this case output 8L - it won't show up on output 8R. But it acts differently in the post fader patch point. I was just thinking it still should just show up on the output track it is panned & assigned to.

[Bob L]

Ok... its been a long time since I have considered outputing multi-outs to a physical console... times have changed for me. :)

The reason is that the pre is before the pan on the input channel... so even if the plug outputs signals on both sides, the pan forces the signal to one side or the other...

In the case of a Post patch... the pan feeds the signal to the plug on one side or the other... if the plug outputs both sides after that... it is now no longer routed by the pan and both sides are fed to the summing stage.

Bob L

[Tim Miskimon]

In the case of a Post patch... the pan feeds the signal to the plug on one side or the other... if the plug outputs both sides after that... it is now no longer routed by the pan and both sides are fed to the summing stage.

Bob L

Got it.
So I guess it all depends on the plug in.
Never really noticed it before but now it makes sense.
I guess I should use mono plugins when possible if I need to output to just one side of a stereo out.
Thanks.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I guess I should use mono plugins when possible if I need to output to just one side of a stereo out.
Thanks. You could also insert the Brainspawn SP-1 Stereo Panner after the plugin, which would let you force the output where you want it.

[Bob L]

Or simply patch my echo delay plug after and then set the delay to 0... this will pass just what comes into it as separate signals.

Bob L

[Perry]

Interesting... I've run into this with quite a few plugins actually. Usually I'd just move them to the pre patch as a solution. But occassionally the situation would be that moving the plugin to the pre patch brought on other problems or trade-offs and I'd have to deal with that. I never thought of these work-arounds suggested here. Thanks for the tips! :)

Perry

[Dave Labrecque]

Got it.
So I guess it all depends on the plug in.
Never really noticed it before but now it makes sense.
I guess I should use mono plugins when possible if I need to output to just one side of a stereo out.
Thanks.

You could also use the pre patch point. (You're probably aware of that.) I, too, have never noticed this before.

[Tim Miskimon]

You could also use the pre patch point. (You're probably aware of that.) I, too, have never noticed this before.
99 % of the time that's where I patch things.
On this one song I had already made a zillion automation volume changes in a lead vocal track & then I decided to patch in the Mic Modeler.
This was a track that was cut on a 421 back in the 80's and I wanted to run it thru the U47 model - which works pretty good. I wanted the level changes to go thru Mic Modeler so it would stay consistant - that's when I discovered what I thought was a quirk. Seems Bob intented for it to function this way.
Like always Saw allows many work arounds - so I'm going to render the file & than patch at pre fader as you suggested...:)