Bob and Brucie Swedien think the same...

[prosodio]

Hello, this is a very good post about compression (well, over-compression) written by Brucie Swedien, a world-class producer and engineer. A while ago Bob told about he doesn´t compress almost anything of his mixes, I´ve started to de-compress a lot of my tracks and the results are a big improvement of my mixes (now I only compress vocals and bass). Please read this post of this great producer and how people agree and disagree with him...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=83046&highlight=compressor

[Microstudio]

That was a good read.. thanks.

[Himhui]

Which Bob? Bob Lentini or Bob katz, or both? :D

[Mark Stebbeds]

Hello, this is a very good post about compression (well, over-compression) written by Brucie Swedien, a world-class producer and engineer. A while ago Bob told about he doesn***180;t compress almost anything of his mixes, I***180;ve started to de-compress a lot of my tracks and the results are a big improvement of my mixes (now I only compress vocals and bass). Please read this post of this great producer and how people agree and disagree with him...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=83046&highlight=compressor

So Bob has switched to Pro Tools at 96k and now absolutely loves analog consoles. ?;) :D

http://gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=885600&postcount=3

[Tim Miskimon]

The strange thing is when you watch the meters on the song Billy Jean they hardly vary at all - no dynamics in that recording what so ever - so did he use compression on that?
I believe the samples in the drum machine he used were compressed so does that not count?
Hard to believe he never uses compression.
Anyway I disagree with him.
Compressors are just another tool of the trade and like reverb or any other effect they can be over used - that doesn't mean you shouldn't use them.
I can't imagine any of my favorite rock or soul recordings without the use of compressors.
One thing I do agree with is that over using compression to make music louder often ruins the recording.

[Mark Stebbeds]

The strange thing is when you watch the meters on the song Billy Jean they hardly vary at all - no dynamics in that recording what so ever - so did he use compression on that?


Not to mention the lack of bass on most of his mixes. I have nothing but respect for the man, particularly for his business acumen, but not one of my favorite engineers from a sonic perspective.

I went to a trade show seminar several years ago where Al Schmidt was being honored, and Bruce gave tribute by saying he looked to Al for sonic inspiration.

He should look a little closer.

I hope he doesn't read this.:o

Mark

[Bill Park]

If you go back to the old Compuserve IQS form posts you'll find my comments on over-compression (which, at the time seemed extreme but now seems moderate compared to current compression techniques) and if you can find the pages, Rip Rowen wrote a good article on over-compression for Pro Rec (must be archived somewhere on the web....) Bob K and Glenn M among others have been beating this particular gong for more than ten years, too. When I first staretd to back away from compressors I was surprised at the wonderful results, and when I started to write about this in the early 90s I recieved a lot of skepticisim. It is a different approach to what many are used to, but the combination of the right mic and pre, placed correcty in the right acoustical space really changes the need for eq and compression, and a bit of pre-thinking preplanning and preproduction in terms of the elements to be included in the recording can go a long way towards making a more coherent recording that requires a lot less diddling to get to where you want to go.

Bill

[Tim Miskimon]

I've never been a big fan of strapping a compressor across the mix buss but I have done it on a few mixes and for that project it added a nice little touch to the mix.
I say use what you need to get the best result but avoid over doing it.
I think guys like George Martin who's made countless classic recordings would laugh at his statement that compressors are for kids.
If they are then I happily will stay forever young...:D
I can't image rock & pop records of the 60s thru today without Universal Audio, Fairchild & DBX compressors.

[Sean McCoy]

Not to mention the lack of bass on most of his mixes. I have nothing but respect for the man, particularly for his business acumen, but not one of my favorite engineers from a sonic perspective.
Have to agree here. Bruce is very good at managing stereo images, and is probably the best I've heard at recording group vocals, but overall I find his mixes don't hit me very hard. Must be the lack of compression. :D

Guys like Chris Lord-Alge and George Massenburg blow me away. Their mixes are big beyond belief.

[Mark Stebbeds]

When you put a compressor on something it either solves a problem or makes something sound better. If it doesn't, why are you using it?

Mark

[ivan40]

When you put a compressor on something it either solves a problem or makes something sound better. If it doesn't, why are you using it?

Mark


You mean when YOU do. Or when some do but I hear it over and over again. People use comps on stuff they don't need to.Billy Jean is a great recording and I think the bottom is right on. There's more dynamic head room left on the original than it sounds like. The re mastered? version is in all likelihood, a mess. Most are..

It's all opinion but for me, Chris Lord-Alges' stuff is good but, I can only listen for a few tunes. It sounds like FM radio to me...

The original Mike Jackson stuff is very open with large peak to RMS valleys that make the loud parts of the arrangement,, Loud. The players of course are amazing people too.

Ivan..............................

[Tim Miskimon]

You mean when YOU do. Or when some do but I hear it over and over again. People use comps on stuff they don't need to.Billy Jean is a great recording and I think the bottom is right on. There's more dynamic head room left on the original than it sounds like. The re mastered? version is in all likelihood, a mess. Most are..

It's all opinion but for me, Chris Lord-Alges' stuff is good but, I can only listen for a few tunes. It sounds like FM radio to me...

The original Mike Jackson stuff is very open with large peak to RMS valleys that make the loud parts of the arrangement,, Loud. The players of course are amazing people too.

Ivan..............................

What good is dynamic range and head room if you don't use it?
Billy Jean is a good song but I personally don't think it's a great recording. The original 1980s release is what I'm referring to - not the remastered CD which to me actually is more open sounding than the original but still stays at one constant level.
It has a good pulse which works for dance music but you need to load it into your DAW and look at the meters and wave form - that song like most of the post 70s dance music doesn't have any dynamics.
If you want to see dynamics in pop music you need to go back to the 70s and look at some of that stuff like Queen, Earth Wind & Fire, etc.

[Dave Labrecque]

What good is dynamic range and head room if you don't use it?
Billy Jean is a good song but I personally don't think it's a great recording. The original 1980s release is what I'm referring to - not the remastered CD which to me actually is more open sounding than the original but still stays at one constant level.
It has a good pulse which works for dance music but you need to load it into your DAW and look at the meters and wave form - that song like most of the post 70s dance music doesn't have any dynamics.
If you want to see dynamics in pop music you need to go back to the 70s and look at some of that stuff like Queen, Earth Wind & Fire, etc.

I remember how quiet some of the vocal stuff is on Night at the Opera. That was not a "loud" record. Lots of dynamics. I think they ran into the limitations of tape, for sure. When I got the CD, I thought it would sound killer. I was disappointed. It sounded like the record (with fewer clicks and pops). And I could hear some of the details of the mix mechanics (like channel/pan switching stuff) that were more veiled on vinyl.

Um... that's all I have. Carry on...

[Tim Miskimon]

I remember how quiet some of the vocal stuff is on Night at the Opera. That was not a "loud" record. Lots of dynamics. I think they ran into the limitations of tape, for sure. When I got the CD, I thought it would sound killer. I was disappointed. It sounded like the record (with fewer clicks and pops). And I could hear some of the details of the mix mechanics (like channel/pan switching stuff) that were more veiled on vinyl.

Um... that's all I have. Carry on...

I don't think that stuff was ever remixed so the 2 track mix down tape was originally mixed to suit the medium of that era (the good ole vinyl record).
Personally I hope they never remix it and leave it alone - most of the remixes I've heard of 60s & 70s classic rock stuff is lacking the original vibe.
Sure they may be cleaner & in some cases it's cool to hear certain things mixed forward a bit but most of the time I'd rather hear the original mix.
I still prefer the original mixes of Beatles stuff - they have more punch to them.

[Sean McCoy]

most of the remixes I've heard of 60s & 70s classic rock stuff is lacking the original vibe.
Probably true in most cases. But I've heard a few classic remixes for 5.1 movie soundtracks that have been awesome. Among others, there was a remix of Paul Simon's "Kodachrome" that blew me away (can't remember the film). To my family's annoyance, I had to hear it several times in a row.

This is, of course, a testament to the quality of the original tracks.

[Brent Bennett]

Paul Simon's "Kodachrome" ...
This is, of course, a testament to the quality of the original tracks.

That was done in the original Muscle Shoals on Jackson Highway. It was raining that day, and the studio roof leaked, so they rigged up a system of tape, string, and tampons so it wouldn't drip on the console. The rig had to be changed every 30 min. :D

Paul was a little upset that of all the studios in the world he could have chosen, he picked this one with a leaky roof. After he heard the playback, the dripping roof was no longer an issue, and no one cared if it rained in or not.

[Dallas4lr]

Have to agree here. Bruce is very good at managing stereo images, and is probably the best I've heard at recording group vocals, but overall I find his mixes don't hit me very hard. Must be the lack of compression. :D

Guys like Chris Lord-Alge and George Massenburg blow me away. Their mixes are big beyond belief.


Wow, Intriguing. When ever I listen to Bruces mixes, particulary on MJ. I notice how clear and clean everything sounds(in a positive way). That stuff sounds like its recorded on glass. Personally I like that clean, clear, punchy sound.


Dallas

[ivan40]

Wow, Intriguing. When ever I listen to Bruces mixes, particulary on MJ. I notice how clear and clean everything sounds(in a positive way). That stuff sounds like its recorded on glass. Personally I like that clean, clear, punchy sound.


Dallas

Me too! It's just plain old pretty and I like where he puts the bottom end.

Interesting how we all like different mixing sensibilities. It certainly keeps this from being boring. What fun we get to have. How lucky can a bunch of audio geeks Be??:D

[Bruce Swedien]

I went to a trade show seminar several years ago where Al Schmidt was being honored, and Bruce gave tribute by saying he looked to Al for sonic inspiration.

He should look a little closer.

I hope he doesn't read this.:o

Mark

Mark, you bastard. I just read your posts in this thread. I've just made a few phone calls, and you'll never work in this town again.

Bruce








Kidding. This isn't Bruce :)

Cheers,
Scott

[Mark Stebbeds]

Mark, you bastard. I just read your posts in this thread. I've just made a few phone calls, and you'll never work in this town again.

Bruce

As if anybody still takes your calls, you outboard gear user.:eek: :D

[Ollie]

Absolutely correct. A compressor is used to contain something that has wild dynamics or to impart a sonic signature you like. The tendency for many people is to compress everything. The question is what sounds in your mix will benefit from compression and which ones already sound good and do not need it.


When you put a compressor on something it either solves a problem or makes something sound better. If it doesn't, why are you using it?

Mark

[AudioAstronomer]

When you put a compressor on something it either solves a problem or makes something sound better. If it doesn't, why are you using it?

Mark

To make something sound worse. Duh.


Which ironically is actually better often these days.


Which means that I should be a famous world-renowned engineer by now! :D :o

[Mark Stebbeds]

To make something sound worse. Duh.


Good answer. Sometimes making something sound worse is better.:)

[studio-c]

As if anybody still takes your calls, you outboard gear user.:eek: :D


LOL :D

[Dallas4lr]

Well,


I dont compress everything, but I most definitely have gates on everything, lol. I guess its an old habit from my analog days.


Dallas

[Sean McCoy]

Well,


I dont compress everything, but I most definitely have gates on everything
If you're in Windows you can't really avoid having Gates on everything. :D

(Yikes! Two bad puns in less than five minutes. What did my wife put in my coffee?)

[Mark Stebbeds]

If you're in Windows you can't really avoid having Gates on everything. :D

(Yikes! Two bad puns in less than five minutes. What did my wife put in my coffee?)

Well, the gate to my back yard fell of it's hinges over the weekend so can I fix that with a plug in?

Mark

[studio-c]

Well, the gate to my back yard fell of it's hinges over the weekend so can I fix that with a plug in?

Mark
You can plug in your drill and make new holes for the new hinge.
It's actually an analog function though. And don't lift that ground, whatever you do. :)

[studio-c]

To make something sound worse. Duh.
Which ironically is actually better often these days.

Go figure.
For example, I really like that "breathe in breathe out" line in the song "Machine Head" by Bush.
It sounds like it's being sung thru a toy megaphone.
Technically horrible.
But for the emotion and intensity they're trying to achieve, it's perfect.

It's all about the context. I love that part of what we do :)

Cheers,
Scott

[beyarecords]

A compressor is used to contain something that has wild dynamics or to impart a sonic signature you like.

Apart from using a compressor to attain a 'special effect' i'm from the school of 'ride those faders'! I know the work involed would be significantly more but i'm sure listening back to the recording ten years after would be more rewarding. Not of course that is you deliverately wanted it to sound like the fashion of that moment!!!


The tendency for many people is to compress everything.

Yes, and this being the case because they believe that this is what is required to make that 'magic' sounding record!