What interface do you use?

[mghtx]

Seems like most SAW people use RME and for good reason. But do any of you use anything else? Any firewire users? Just want to know.

[TotalSonic]

At the mastering studio I work at I installed a SAW-DAW with a Lynx One as the needs were pretty simple there - I really only needed AES, wordclock & 2 channel analog i/o. At my project studio where I do some tracking I use a Soundscape Mixtreme - I highly recommend these for SAW rigs. If your not familiar with the Mixtreme - it's a 16i/o card via 2 TDIF ports with excellent driver support (very low latency drives for all flavors of Windows for MME, ASIO2, WDM & GSIF), onboard dsp for running Soundscape plugins on, and an amazing dedicated virtual mixer that allows for easy zero latency input monitoring and virtual routing from any application to any other app. Sydec, the company that designed the Mixtreme - is about to release some incredible products -including the Mixpander Power Pack - which gives 24 channels of 24bit/96kHz analog i/o along with some serious DSP & a powered plugins bundle for only $3750. They have other less expensive package deals for more modest needs also.
http://www.sydec.be

But you really can't go wrong with RME - they make awesome products also.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Oz Nimbus]

MAudio Delta 1010 here. I used to run an Apogee Rosetta with it as well, until I figured out the Delta wasn't taking the Apogee's clock sync properly. Oh well.

Steve, how would you rate/compare the sound quality of the Soundscape stuff vs. say, a Lynx?

-0z-

[mghtx]

Only $3750? Well then, I'll take two. Unless I win the lottery or the like there is no way.

OK. How about less than $1000. What's good for SAW at $1000 or less?

[AudioAstronomer]

I am using a motu 896 with great results sonically and performance wise! Running stable at 1x128 buffer. With a full project I have to bump it to 2x128, but it is still rock solid.

And I must say, for anything else in the range, the preamps and converters are solid. Very good buy. jrrshop.com has on efor 799 I beleive.

[matt]

Check out Sydec (Soundscape). The new Mixtreme 192 is about $400 usd and is basically a digital mixer in a soundcard. You will of coarse need to get a TDIF compatible AD/DA. They have several for about $200.

[Bob L]

For a low cost great solution... consider the RME HammerFall Light and a Behringer ADA-8000... this will give you 8 chans to start for probably under $700 and adding another $230 Behringer will give you all 16 channels.

A bonus with the Behringers is their 8 channels of mic pres with built-in phantom power.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

I just sold an ADA8000, worked great while it worked :( I had to have i repaied because two of the output jacks basically fell off. I would recommend the unit as well if you are very careful with it and it does not experience much wear.

[Shawn]

I'm using a MOTU 828MKII along with a Behringer ADA-8000 with no complaints, about $700 for the MOTU, and $200 for the ADA-8000.

[Carey Langille]

I use Hammerfall 9652 and Three ADA8000's here and not one problem in a almost a yr. they actually have not even been turned off in a yr... I still cant believe these things are under $250.00.

[mghtx]

WOW! I need to check out this ADA8000. $250+/- is in my ballpark. I like finding really good stuff for a great price. And who doesn't right? But finding really great quality for under $500 is what I like. Use the "kiss" method I say. Take SS for example. Very simple and strait forward and it's so much better than the "others".

Thanks guys, keep 'em coming.

[Shawn]

WOW! I need to check out this ADA8000. $250+/- is in my ballpark.

Just to clearify, the ADA-8000 won't get any audio into or out of your computer by itself, it is an 8x8 converter with 8 mic/line inputs, and 8 balanced (XLR) outputs that uses ADAT lightpipe to carry 8 channels of audio I/O of an audio interface that uses a lightpipe connection.

[Carey Langille]

Im thinking about setting up a 24 channel system using a hammerfall and laptop, and 3 ADA8000s for Live work....24 ins with mic pres and virtual sawstduio console in live mode! This should work very well.. I am lucky enough to have a small venue down the street that will alow me to beta test a system and if i have any problems it wont be a big deal, but i will really be able to feel the system in a LIVE situation.. Frank Farrell has been doing a bunch of Live sawstudio stuff with Kenny Rogers and i think it has been working out very well for him! The ADA8000's make it a very inexpensive option ( read - NO BOARD) to get the mic feeds in to the computer...And they even sound good! Better than a $2000.00 single channel mic pre with pristine tube mic..NO, But really good!! As god as most of the mic pres that are in a lot of systems ... IMHO..

[mghtx]

Hey Carey, what monitors are you using for your avatar? Alesis? They look like my 'monitor ones'. Wished I thought of that.

[AudioAstronomer]

Hey Carey, what monitors are you using for your avatar? Alesis? They look like my 'monitor ones'. Wished I thought of that.

Sure do look like Monitor One's.

[Carey Langille]

Heheh Monitor One MKII :D

[mghtx]

Ha! Got it! :D

[TotalSonic]

Steve, how would you rate/compare the sound quality of the Soundscape stuff vs. say, a Lynx?

-0z-

The Lynx cards use Crystal Semiconductor converters which are good. Not in the same league as the real high end stuff like Lavry's - but very decent, especially considering that they sit on the card - which is usually not the best idea. Best use for the Lynx One is to tie it to better AD/DA via the AES i/o.

The Mixtreme doesn't have converters of it's own - you need to tie a TDIF box with ad/da to it. They work well if you have a digital board such as the Tascam DM-24 as a front end. Sydec also sells a number of different converter boxes. The earlier of these used AKM 20bit AD which are ok but nothing that special. They also had a box that featured 24bit Crystal Semiconductor ad also. They are about to release a number of converter boxes that I have yet to hear but that look very promising - http://www.sydec.be/Products/

I'll go against the grain of some of the other posters here and say that to my ear the Behringer's AD-8000 doesn't sound good, although I have only had limited experience with it.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[ghowardjr]

I'll go out on a limb and say the Lynx converters are some of the best I've heard for any soundcard with on-board converters. The lynx 2 specs are incredible.

Analog In Performance
(Analog performance specs measured at 44.1 kHz sample rate, 24-bit, card installed in computer)
Frequency Response
20 - 20 kHz, ± 0.05 dB at 44.1 kHz sample rate
Dynamic Range
117 dB, A-wtd.
Signal-to-Noise
116 dB, A-wtd.
Channel Crosstalk
<-120 dB, 1 kHz signal @ -1dBFS
THD+N
-108 dB (0.0004%) @ -1 dBFS
-104 dB (0.0006%) @ -8 dBFS
1 kHz signal, 22Hz - 22kHz BW


Analog Out Performance
(Analog performance specs measured at 44.1 kHz sample rate, 24-bit, card installed in computer)
Frequency Response
20 - 20 kHz, ± 0.05 dB at 44.1 kHz sample rate
Dynamic Range
117 dB, A-wtd.
Signal-to-Noise
117 dB, A-wtd.
Channel Crosstalk
<-120 dB, 1 kHz signal @ -1dBFS
THD+N
-97 dB (0.0014%) @ -1 dBFS
-104 dB (0.0006%) @ -8 dBFS
1kHz signal, 22Hz - 22kHz BW

[Burkeville]

I am using the hammerfall with the Frontier Tangos. Sounds great. I regreted buying the hammerfall because of the monitor situation. The only reason I bought it was because of the 96 k thing but it has never been a issue.
The Rme converts are SUPER clean and have no sound of their own. What I put in seems to be what comes out. The Tangos colour a little but I like it.

[Bob L]

Burkeville,

What monitor thing with the hammerfall?

Bob L

[Dingo]

Steve,
How does the sound quality of the mixtreme compare to that of apogee converters?

[Oz Nimbus]

Hey gang,

I'm taking a serious look at the RME stuff, mainly for the drivers. I'm unfarmiliar with thier products, so I was hoping somebody could make some recommendations. Here's what I need:

1) 16 inputs
2) minimum 6 outs
3) Absolute rock-solid no jitter transfers from converter to computer
4) 24 bit, 44.1 khz. 96khz really isn't required, but could be useful sometime down the road.
5) Clean conversion with top notch sonics. Apogee or better level.

-0z-

[TotalSonic]

Hey gang,

I'm taking a serious look at the RME stuff, mainly for the drivers. I'm unfarmiliar with thier products, so I was hoping somebody could make some recommendations. Here's what I need:

1) 16 inputs
2) minimum 6 outs
3) Absolute rock-solid no jitter transfers from converter to computer
4) 24 bit, 44.1 khz. 96khz really isn't required, but could be useful sometime down the road.
5) Clean conversion with top notch sonics. Apogee or better level.

-0z-

Hi Oz -
If you wanted to go the Sydec rout you could get a single Mixtreme 192 card -
http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=bff3368f-c161-4c9b-ab3d-779666748d56

and link it to two Apogee i/o 896 ad/da boxes -

http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=06eff631-6297-49e0-ac3c-e0f9724fab80

This would give 16 i/o at up to 48kHz with Apogee converters. It would give you 8i/o at 96kHz - if you wanted to get 16i/o at 96KHz you could just add a second Mixtreme 192 card.

Total cost for the boxes/card would $5400 US. You would then need 4 Dsub to analog snakes for the i/o as a break out or to be sent to a patch bay - so figure another $800 for this.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

Steve,
How does the sound quality of the mixtreme compare to that of apogee converters?

Again - the Mixtreme does not have onboard converters. It just has two TDIF ports - each port allows for 8 channels of digital i/o on a single cable. Sydec offers have a wide range of ad/da boxes with TDIF i/o - ranging in quality from their older i-Box-line box with standardish 20bit AKM chips (the same converters as on the Tascam TM-D1000 - which sounds just as good to my ear as the Behringer "24"bit AD converter); the i-Box-XLR with 24bit Crystal Semiconductor ad (same as the Lynx One), the soon to be released i-Box 48TA with 24bit/96kHz AKM chips; and to a 24bit/96kHz box made by Apogee for Sydec. So get the Apogee i/o 896 and use it with the Mixtreme and the answer is - it sounds the same as Apogee converters!! :)

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Dingo]

So the mixtreme is just effects?

[TotalSonic]

So the mixtreme is just effects?

No - not at all. The Mixtreme is a PCI sound card - but it does not have analog to digital (AD) or digital to analog (DA) converters built onto the card. Instead it has 2 TDIF (Tascam Digital InterFace) ports on the card allowing up to 16 channels of digital i/o. You plug a TDIF cable into one port for 8 channels and plug the other end into the TDIF compatible AD/DA converter box of your choice. This is similar to the RME Hammerfall series - which relies on outboard converters also - except that the RME uses a lightpipe (i.e. optical 8 channel "ADAT" connections) to connect to the converter boxes instead of TDIF cables.

Unlike the RME cards the Mixtreme has onboard DSP allowing additional proprietary effects to be run without taxing your computers native CPU. I like it also because it's driver support is excellent and it has its own virtual mixer allows incredible virtual routing options to/from multiple apps running at the same time, plus it allows for very easy setup of zero latency input monitoring.

Check out http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=bff3368f-c161-4c9b-ab3d-779666748d56 for more info.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Ollie]

I am using Mytek converters A to D(16 channels) and D to A(24 channels) with the Hammerfall card. It sounds very good to my ears.

Mytek converters are not cheap, but sometimes you can catch a break on their refurbed models. The converters definetly made a noticeable difference in the sonic quality and imaging that was produced.

[matt]

Ollie you lucky dog! I read an article a while back that claimed Aerosmith sent back their special edition Apogee's when they heard the Mytek's. The mixtreme is the bomb as far as I'm concerned. It completely eliminates the need for an outboard mixer and the sound quality of the effects (if you have any) is pro through and through. The TDIF thing was a bit of a discouragement at first, but I like it much better now that I have been using it for over a year. Rock solid! The best thing about Sydec is that all of their products are pro, even though some are ten times the price of the mixtreme. I find that the mixtreme in conjunction with SAWStudio is the most cost effective professional solution available to date. :cool:

[swing]

Anyone worked with either of these 2?

Sydec Mixpander Powerpak 48 http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=008d5d3d-c9bd-404e-8002-216ca3d0045d

ST Audio DSP3000 M-Port http://www.staudio.com/

swing

[TotalSonic]

Anyone worked with either of these 2?

Sydec Mixpander Powerpak 48 http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=008d5d3d-c9bd-404e-8002-216ca3d0045d

ST Audio DSP3000 M-Port http://www.staudio.com/

swing

Swing -
The Mixpander Powerpak certainly specs out to be an awesome piece with lots of bang for buck! However - while Sydec started shipping the updated Mixtreme 192 a couple months ago - I don't think they've started shipping the Mixpander Powerpak yet. If you're in the US though you might want to give Bert Neikirk a shout - he's been a Soundscape dealer for a long while and is an incredibly nice guy and might have a better handle as to when these units will be available - http://www.neikirk-audio.com

The following might be of interest to anyone looking for a good deal on a starter Sydec system. The Mixtreme 192 card is the latest version of the Mixtreme capable of up to 192kHz streams (if connected to a 192 capable converter). The i-Box 8-Line is an 8 channel ad/da box with 20bit AKM 44.1/48 converter box with RCA unbalanced plugs. The i-Box 2 -Mic is a 2 channel 24bit 44.1/48 ad/da converter box with 2 clean mic pre's with phantom power, and 2 line in/outs on balanced XLR. The Audio Toolbox is a set of plugins that runs on the DSP on the Mixtreme card.
To upgrade this system you could purchase the Apogee i/o 896 (which is currently available) -
http://www.sydec.be/Products/Details/?ID=06eff631-6297-49e0-ac3c-e0f9724fab80
which would give you 8 channels of quality 96kHz i/o.

____________

http://www.sydec.be/Applications/Articles/?ID=3f9600f0-885c-4588-b2f7-231ee43f04c9

Our new Mixtreme deals run from 1st July - 31st August

Also as a promotion for the launch of Mixtreme 192 we have the following packages:


Mixtreme 192 Power Pak 16: 395 Euro (500 USD)
Mixtreme 192, 2 x iBox 8-Line, AudioToolBox Plug-in

Mixtreme 192 Value Pak: 295 Euro (370 USD)
Mixtreme 192, 1 x iBox 2-Line, AudioToolBox Plug-in

Mixtreme 192 PRE: 395 Euro(500 USD)
Mixtreme 192, 1 x iBox 2-Mic, AudioToolBox Plug-in

Mixtreme 192 Studio Pak: 445 Euro (550 USD)
Mixtreme 192, 1 x iBox 8-Line, 1 x iBox 2-Mic, AudioToolBox Plug-in

________________

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[TotalSonic]

I am using Mytek converters A to D(16 channels) and D to A(24 channels) with the Hammerfall card. It sounds very good to my ears.

Mytek converters are not cheap, but sometimes you can catch a break on their refurbed models. The converters definetly made a noticeable difference in the sonic quality and imaging that was produced.

I just ordered a Mytek Stereo96 AD for the studio - these definitely sounded better than the Apogees to my ear - and they are amazingly affordable. http://www.mytekdigital.com

If anyone is looking to pick these up also I got fantatstic price from Sonic Circus in Mass. - http://www.soniccircus.com - ask for Brian - a seriously nice guy - and tell him I sent ya!

Best regards,
Steve Berson