computer doa

[Bill Park]

Okay, I've been toying with buying a new computer, and I've been doing much of my remix work in the laptop until I can get the new room set up properly. (Funerals and weddings seem to be blocking my path...) but this AM I booted up Old Reliable, and she ran through the opeing Intel board routines then went black.

I don't really have time to deal with this right now, I'm getting married Weds. But when I get back from my honeymoon, it will be time to get or build a new machine.

I'm a leading edge kinda guy.... I'll buy a killer machine today and run it for a couple of years. Looking for recommendations. (Please don't suggest ADK or other mom and pop audio machine builders.... I've thrown such machines away after months of frustration.... I'd go with a Chris Smith or some other machine genius, or I'd build it myself, but I have little interest in the generic audio box houses.)

Anyway, I prefer Intel, and I'd even consider an Intel Mac running XP if there is a compelling reason to do so. Open to suggestions and/or ideas.

Thanks,

Bill

[Bill Park]

So would I.

Mark

I think that we have mentioned this before, but I am under the understanding that Chris does not build audio machines anymore, and stays away from MS products, or at least, OSes.

Bill

[bcorkery]

Chris does not build audio machines anymoreI've heard the same, darn shame. Marks suggestion is a good one, especially if you're going to roll your own. :)

You might want to take a look at the TracerTek (http://tracertek.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=7) offereings. I've never bought one from them but have their Forensic software and there customer servise is pretty darn good.

[Dave Labrecque]

With Chris being less interested in custom-building sytems these days (if indeed that's the case), I've often thought about the idea that for my next system, I'd ask Chris if I could just pay him a consultant fee to draw me up a parts and suppliers list (and maybe an assembly/configuration guide) -- then I'd buy everything and build it myself.

Perry comes to mind as another brain to pick (and pay) in such a manner. If he'd be up for it. :)

[Perry]

First of all.... Congratulations on your wedding Bill! :)

FWIW, since Dave has somewhat volunteered me :rolleyes: I do build a few systems for guys around this area, from time to time, strictly by referral only.

I don't think this is something that I really want to get into as an actual 'business'... potentially far too many headaches, especially for 'long distance' clients. For one guy this scenario could easily become a nightmare I'd think.

Having said that; if you want to build one yourself (roll your own) this is relatively easy to do with components available off the shelf today and this might be your best bet, especially if you have a bit of experience already doing this. As the saying goes: If you want to get something done right.. do it yourself!

And, I don't at all mind offering some suggestions.

If you want to go with Intel (and for a top line rig this would be my suggestion) my recommendation is to go with the Intel E-6600 dual core CPU and the Asus P5W DH-Deluxe motherboard.

This is what I use for my own main rig running SAWStudio.

I've over-clocked mine up to the specs of an E-6800 cpu but if you'd rather not do that then it's still great performance at stock speeds. And you can, of course, spend more money and go to the E-6700, or even the E-6800, but it hardly seems worth it to me... I'd rather spend that money on something else myself.

Beyond that there are a number of options in terms of case, fans, video card, etc.. depending on more exactly what your requirements are.

For a 'quiet' rig the first thing I would do is replace the stock Intel CPU fan. This interacts to some degree with the case used, as some of the fans are quite tall and need a certain amount of clearance, and this might dictate which fan to use but there are a few good options available that will give cooler CPU temps at much quieter volumes.

As far as the MAC/Intel goes.. this could be an option but, IMO, this all depends on if you actually need the Mac. I seriously considered this myself recently but decided to once again build my own PC. It wasn't at all though that I thought the Mac wouldn't be nice mind you.

It will cost a bit more initially maybe (depends on what you are comparing it to) but there are other considerations as well... for me a big one was the available slots for my cards. I would definitely have to have an expansion chassis if I went to an Intel Mac.

I have a 32 bit one already that I use but, for the Mac this would mean a new 64 bit Magma chassis, which is pretty pricey. This would run the cost up beyond an acceptable level for me so I went back to plan "A", as it were.

Maybe next time around this will make more sense? Certainly I'll keep my eyes on this possibility.

If, however, this could work for you and you wouldn't need an expansion chassis, then this might make sense. You'd just have to weigh out the pros and cons and make a decision.

It would mean a quick and easy purchase of course.. lay out your $$$ and there is your new computer... just have to install the necessary software to run the MS OS. A friend of mine just got one here. He's running Mac OS but he loves the new computer for sure.

I'd just add that I DO like the general construction/quality/cosmetics of the Apple offerings and I like the idea of such a move myself. I already have the Apple Cinema to match even.

If you have ANY other reasons to go with the Intel Mac I'd sure give that some more thought.

PM me if you like Bill... I'll be happy to reply with more specific info about a 'roll your own' computer build.

In the meantime.. once again.. Congratulations on the wedding! :)

Cheers,

Perry

[Dave Labrecque]

Yeah, Bill. Congrats! :)

[Carl G.]

.... if you want to build one yourself (roll your own) this is relatively easy to do with components available off the shelf today
Perry
Ditto.
The real hassle is not building the computer... but setting up the machine (if you're making it a multi-tasker. If you're using it mainly for DAW work... today building a machine is a fairly easy thing to do.
I wrestled with getting a MAC this year but opted for a high end PC and am happy that I did.

[sebastiandybing]

Hi Bill

Personly I have mostly been using Intel mb with seems to stick
to standard settings, and that is what most audio cards like.

Another thing to think about is for how long will you keep your pci
cards, and if so how many have you.
The new mb has a mix of pci, pcie and pcix slots, and that is a serius
mess to find out what will work in what slot and not.
RME have made a page to clear up in what slot you can use there
new cards, I have been using a lot of time to find out about canopus NX
pcix cards. like can it sit in a pcix1, pcix2, x8, x16 slot, or only in the x1 slot.
Now canopus have tested it in all the slots and confirmed that it will work in
any of them.

If you are working with video, a core2 Quad cut be the ticket, Canopus
new Procoder3 are written specefic for quad core procesing, and probably many other will rewrite there redering engings to support the extra cpu´s.

Sebastian

[Bill Park]

...If he won't build one, he always has sage advice on what to buy and what to avoid. I suggest you give him a call and say hello.

Mark

Good idea Mark, but I know how I feel when the only time that people contact me is when they want something..... that is kinda rude and I respect Chris too much to treat him like that.

Bill

[Bill Park]

Hi Bill

Personly I have mostly been using Intel mb with seems to stick
to standard settings, ...

Thanks Sebastian.

I prefer Intel, too; and I'll keep an eye out for what RME has to say.


Bill

[Bill Park]

Yeah, Bill. Congrats! :)

Thanks Dave.

Bill

[Bill Park]

First of all.... Congratulations on your wedding Bill! :)

...if you want to build one yourself (roll your own) ...

If you want to go with Intel (and for a top line rig this would be my suggestion) my recommendation is to go with the Intel E-6600 dual core CPU and the Asus P5W DH-Deluxe motherboard.

This is what I use for my own main rig running SAWStudio.

I've over-clocked mine up to the specs of an E-6800 ....

As far as the MAC/Intel goes..

Perry

Thanks, Perry

I'll probably be making my own... I started out making my own because I had a great handle on the OS. I've let all of that slide little by little, until it got to the point that I needed someone like Chris to do the work for me, mostly because they understand the OS better. I can certainly cobble together the hardware.

Yeah, I'm totally comfortable over-clocking, but again, it is a matter of not having the info, rather than not having the desire. I'd have to get a tweek sheet for the OS and for over-clocking to build my own machine today. I moved from doing a lot of computer work along with sound and recording to being pretty much totally imersed in theater, recording, and live audio about 12 years ago, and a lot has changed int e computer world in 12 years.

As far as Mac-Tel goes, the only reason that I suggested it is that I have been told (with no proof...) that the Apple MB uses a wider memory bus... about 3 times as wide as the PC version. If this is true and our apps can use the wider pipe, then a number of processes should be faster. But again, I really don';t know what I am talking about and so far when I have mentioned it on line, no one comments. Soooooo.......

Bill

[Pedro Itriago]

You're getting married and your computer dies. Maybe your computer is jealous?

I was going to comment about your computer want description, but I think I'll pass.

BTW, here's a suggestion you'l love: Sweetwater (note, it's a joke, not a real recommendation, ok?)

Congrat and enjoy your honeymoon

[Angie]

Hey Bill,

Congrats on the upcoming wedding. Chris and I wish you both a happy, heathly life together!!

[Ian Alexander]

I don't think it's rude if you're contacting him to discuss building a box.

Mark
I tend to agree with Mark here. If someone calls on me for help, first they're telling me they value my opinion, which is nice. They also expect to do something in return. Either a favor for me, or pay my invoice. Mutually beneficial.

Also, Chris might like the chance to say no, or yes. Perhaps he's back in that business or is buying the parts and having a young protege do the labor. He might also refer to someone you can trust.

All the best for tomorrow and years to come.

[Bill Park]

Now that I am back, I'm gonna bump this back up to the top, as I have some small urgency to get the rig up and running again.

So I'm reading that the e6600 does pretty much everything that we need, but I'm not adverse to spending the extra money on the 6700 if it is worth it. Any opinions?

Oh, looking for the 3 head PCIe card. suggestions?

And PCIe firewire 800 card.

Case? Power supply?

What about overclocking sites and needs (like a better heatsink...)

Bill

[Perry]

Now that I am back, I'm gonna bump this back up to the top, as I have some small urgency to get the rig up and running again.

So I'm reading that the e6600 does pretty much everything that we need, but I'm not adverse to spending the extra money on the 6700 if it is worth it. Any opinions?

Oh, looking for the 3 head PCIe card. suggestions?

And PCIe firewire 800 card.

Case? Power supply?

What about overclocking sites and needs (like a better heatsink...)

Bill

The E-6700 is a fairly small bump up in power for a much bigger bump in price. If you've got dollars to throw around then why not... but personally I'd rather spend that money on something else nice. If you got to the E-6800 at least you get the 'unlocked' cpu clock advantage, unless that's been changed in the last little while. But then that's a MUCH bigger increase in cost. Again not worth it IMO.

I have my E-6600 running at just over the clock speed of the E-6800 anyway... doesn't make sense IMO to go above the E-6600. Suit yourself of course! :)

Cheers,
Perry

[Perry]

It'll be probably tomorrow at least before I have time to do it but I'll try to post some info on the other stuff you've mentioned and maybe it will be of help to some others as well.

Just recently did fairly extensive research on the latest crop of Power Supplies and all that other 'stuff' that it takes to make a decent DAW computer by today's standards.

One quick comment is that the CPU coolers can be fairly interactive with the case used as a lot of the top crop of cpu coolers now are VERY TALL and need the clearance ...Clarence:).

Also.. The 3-head video depends on what size monitors (and resolution) you're going to run IMO. The often recommended Matrox cards for triple head wouldn't do what I needed in this regard. Another option is to go with 2 PCIe graphics cards. I'm thinking of trying this myself. Of course then you have to have a motherboard that supports this.. but many of the new ones do.

Back with more later...

Cheers,

Perry

[Perry]

OK.. here's some info that I promised... and hopefully will be of some help. These are all strictly my recommendations based on either my own personal use, systems I have built for others and/or, reviews/research I have studied.... and in no case is meant as any guarantee of any kind that any of it will work for you or anyone else.

I will put in here too that everything below is "In my Opinion" and/or "To the best of my Knowledge".

With constant motherboard revisions and BIOS changes, new 'steppings' of CPU's, and the whole 'mess' of parts that constitute a DAW system, including software... it's virtually impossible to make guarantees.

We can however give it our best shot. :)

This is meant to be a 'short' list and no doubt others will have their own preferences and/or recommendations.

Motheboards:

Going Intel route my top choice is still the Asus P5W DH-Deluxe. This, as far as I know, has been universally compatible and stable across all software and soundcards and offers the widest range of features.

Other choices are the P5B-E range... carefully comparing the different versions for individual features. This includes the 'Commando' version that has more PCI slots.. trading out other features for this.

One thing to watch for (if it's important to you) is that the on-board firewire support varies between all these.. some using the VIA chip for this while others use the Texas Instruments chip. The VIA chip here is known to be the worst performer of the two.

There's also the more 'vanilla' Intel motherboard... with less features to go along with the Vanilla color. :)

For AMD.... the ATI chipset motherboards seem to be the most overall reliable for DAW systems. Without considerable additional ressearch this is the ONLY motherboard I would personally consider at this time for an AMD based Daw. That's not to say that none of the others will work... just that the ATI chipset doesn't seem to have any of the incompatibility problems that the nVidia boards have been plagued with.

If you absolutely NEVER plan to use ANY dsp cards then this might not be a consideration.

I use the ASUS M2R32-MVP for this.

CPU:

Intel E-6600. It seems to be a more or less general consensus that this is the 'sweet spot' here. and I agree. If so desired, and given that other components will support this, it's rather easy to overclock the E-6600 to the core speeds of the E-6800.. or above.

AMD_AM2... whichever models you want to spend money on. These are still strong performers and at the top are very close to Intel's performance. But, especially at the top, hard to recommend over Intel if you're building from scratch. For anyone already with an AMD AM2 system it would make sense of course to upgrade rather than switch.

And for a lower cost system AMD is arguably the way to go still. The 3800+ X2 (dual core) makes a strong rig very cheaply. Drop this onto the ATI chipset motherboard and you've got a great performer for very little money.

I know Bill that you're looking for a more top end rig so this of course isn't for you.

Video Cards:

I'm not up to date on the Matrox offerings so you'd have to look these over yourself or get someone else here to chime in on that. When I was looking at these they wouldn't do triple head at the resolutions I needed... not sure what the situation is now.

Otherwise there's these I'd mention:

ASUS Radeon X1950 Pro

This is ATI and it's what I have in my main DAW. I'm quiet happy with it. There are other versions available as well in the ATI line up of course. I know you were asking about triple head so you'd have to use 2 cards for this in that case.

Gigabyte GV-NX73T256P-RH GeForce 7300GT

I've installed a couple of these. Nice and extremely quiet of course with no fan. This is one of the only fanless designs really that works well enogh so that the card doesn't get smokin' hot. Again.. you'd need 2.

XFX FX 6200 (or alternate brands of the FX 6200)


CASE:

You might want to look at the Antec 550 Titan. This is a nice looking, solid case all around and it accepts full length cards, etc. I built a rig recently with one of these and I liked it. The front 'door' is a little finicky to open and close but once it's put together this isn't really a problem.

This case comes with Antec True Power 2.0 550 watt power supply installed. The Antec power supplies are highly rated and well reviewed. This is the same power supply that I use in my main DAW (though not in this case).

A lot of cases to choose from of course. Some others I'd consider worth mentioning are:

Chenbro RM42200 (rack mount)
Chenbro RM411 (rack mount)
Antec P180 ATX Advanced Mid Tower
Antec Nine Hundred (large top mounted fan for extra hot running system cooling.. for instance gamer's systems)
LIAN-LI PC-V1100A Aluminum ATX 19IN Full Tower Case
Lian Li PC-V1000B+II Black (the Lian Li's are gorgeous cases)
Silverstone has some nice looking cases as well... the list goes on and on.

FWIW, I use a nondescript rack case for my main DAW and Thermaltake Tenor cases for my other 2 DAW rigs. These are small 'entertainment center' type cases; attractive but definitely not the case for anyone that needs to open it up and get into it very often. I like these though because they're compact and will slide into a 19 inch rack easily. They're nice looking as well.

POWERSUPPLIES:

Corsair CMPSU-620HX 620W ATX Triple 12V
Corsair HX520 CMPSU-520HX 520W ATX Triple 12V
FSP Fortron AX500-A Blue Storm II 500W
Silverstone Strider ST56F 560W
Antec Neo HE550
Seasonic S12 ENERGY+ 650W
CoolMax CR-550b (and some of the other CoolMax models)

Any of these should serve you quite well. Hard to make a single recommendation. I do like the Antec's though.

Price and features (like cable sleeving, etc) could be considered along with the actual electrical specs.

MEMORY:

OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 (2X1GB) DDR2-800

This is what I opted for and seemed to be the best overall value for high performance memory. And this has worked well with the P5W DH Deluxe motherboard.

Corsair XMS2 would be a good choice as well. And you could of course go for 4 GB if you preferred.

CPU FANS:

Well.. a lot to choose from here but the main thing is does it cool the CPU and how quiet is it.. along with cost. There is always too the consideration of whether or not a given cooler will fit well in a given motherboard/case configuration and not conflict with other components, on board or added in.

Here's a short list...

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro 2500RPM 45CFM (Intel LGA775)
There is a separate version for AMD. These work really well.. great cooling.. and the newer models allow for speed monitoring from the motherboard for quietness. Also a great price for these.

Scythe Ninja Plus REV.B Heatpipe Fanless Heatsink AMD AM2 and LGA775 (S478 S754 S939) W/ 120MM Fan Adjuster (SCNJ-1100P) (Add a fan to this)

Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon Copper Alum CPU Heatsinkfan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 S939 (CL-P0114)

Thermaltake CL-P0310 Big Typhoon VX Heatpipe CPU Heatsink Fan 1300RPM 54.4CFM 16DBA LGA775 AM2 S939

Thermaltake Silent 775D (for Intel)

SCASM-1000 Scythe Andy Samurai Master Heatpipe CPUHeatsink LGA775 AM2 S939 S754 120MM 1200RPM 49.6CFM 20.94DBA $50.26

There are also the Zalman units to consider.

Some of these coolers are super tall and/or big! An exception here is the Thermaltake Silent 775D, which is small in comparison.

I have the Scythe Andy because most of the others either wouldn't fit my case or weren't available locally.

I'd probably go for the Thermaltake CL-P0310 Big Typhoon VX otherwise or maybe the Thermaltake Silent 775D. Also Thermaltake has some newer fans now that I'd look over, especially the V1 (CL-P0401).

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/

Again though.. the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is hard to beat and is the best buy/value IMO. I installed one of these (the AMD version) on a rig for someone else and was impressed with it.


CASE FANS:

Antec TriCool 120MM 3-SPEED and Antec TRI-COOL 80MM 3 Speed
(I like these in some situations because you can turn up the speed if you need extra cooling. You can get the glowing blue ones or with no lights)

Noctua NF-R8 80MM, NF-S12-1200, NF-S12-800, etc Ultra Quiet Cooling Fans The only BROWN fans I know of! (The Noctua fans are amazingly quiet for the amount of air they move. Some of these run very slowly and don't move a whole lot of air but are great for building a quiet system where you'd use more fans for specific cooling needs).

Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120MM, Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120MM (similar in concept to the Noctua fans)

Silenx Ixtrema Pro Case Fan 60MM (these are smaller ones and only needed for certain cases... quieter than most small fans)

Hard Drives:

Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB cache
or EIDE models if you prefer. In some cases I prefer to stay with EIDE for the OS but it's optional.

Seagate 16MB cache hard drives work well also.

There are also the 10,000 RPM 'Raptors' but I just can't see a need myself.. ymmv.


OK.. hope this helps.

All the best,

Perry

[Carl G.]

Perry,
I have both the Antec Tower case and the LIAN-LI PC case and found the Lian-Li to be excessively hot (though only slightly more quiet).
The Antec Tower case is nice... I have the Full tower (built like a ROCK) but bulky for the space I have to put it in.
So, this time around I settled for a completely open design ... a gamer's case from Best Buy.
The idea being extra large fans pushing large volumes of air at very low fan speeds (with nice lights etc - which I turn off)
It has two large fans in front plus a gigantic fan on top of the case (it convenient spouts out all the heat where it gathers - at the top of the case!)... PLUS another large fan in the back right next to the CPU fan.
Because of the large size of the fans I can put their speed on next to nothing and it is near completely quite! The ONLY fan I hear is the video card fan (Matrox)... which (as posted earlier) I'm planning on making 'fanless' when I'm 'fearless' of the warranty :)

[Pedro Itriago]

... I'm planning on making 'fanless' when I'm 'fearless' of the warranty :)

C'mon, you can do it! Who needs a warranty. Go for it! (muuahahaha)

[Perry]

Perry,
I have both the Antec Tower case and the LIAN-LI PC case and found the Lian-Li to excessively hot (though only slightly more quiet).
The Antec Tower case is nice... but I have the Full tower (built like a ROCK) but bulky for the space I have to put it in.
So, this time around I settled for a completely open design ... a gamer's case from Best Buy.
The idea being extra large fans pushing large volumes of air at very low fan speeds (with nice lights etc - which I turn off)
It has two large fans in front plus a gigantic fan on top of the case (it convenient spouts out all the heat where it gathers - at the top of the case!)... PLUS another large fan in the back right next to the CPU fan.
Because of the large size of the fans I can put their speed on next to nothing and it is near completely quite! The ONLY fan I hear is the video card fan (Matrox)... which (as posted earlier) I'm planning on making 'fanless' when I'm 'fearless' of the warranty :)

Yes, I'm aware that the design of the Lian Li cases can cause higher case temps but, in most situations this isn't a problem. I still like those cases... love the interior layout and especially the hard drive slots and how easy it is to remove and/or swap them.

Still, I agree, in some cases heating might be a problem.

For a top fan mounted design there's also the Antec Nine Hundred... huge fan in the top. I almost listed that one and probably should have. I'll add it in to the list now.

Thanks Carl! :)

Perry

[Carl G.]

Yes, I'm aware that the design of the Lian Li cases can cause higher case temps but, in most situations this isn't a problem. I still like those cases... love the interior layout and especially the hard drive slots and how easy it is to remove and/or swap them.

Still, I agree, in some cases heating might be a problem.

For a top fan mounted design there's also the Antec Nine Hundred... huge fan in the top. I almost listed that one and probably should have. I'll add it in to the list now.

Thanks Carl! :)

Perry

Yeah... I forgot about the easy Drive bay tray. Very handy on the Lian Li!
The Best Buy Gamer I have is similar though. except I have two different drive bay trays (each handling 3 hard drives and each with their own super large fan directly in front of each set of 3 drives. (plus an option to have another large fan on the other side of the drives- forcing large volume of air right across the drives).

[Perry]

Yeah... I forgot about the easy Drive bay tray. Very handy on the Lian Li!
The Best Buy Gamer I have is similar though. except I have two different drive bay trays (each handling 3 hard drives and each with their own super large fan directly in front of each set of 3 drives. (plus an option to have another large fan on the other side of the drives- forcing large volume of air right across the drives).

I'm wanting to have all of my computers in a single rack enclosure... for cabling convenience among other things... and with wheels so I can move it around easily. And that's what I have but... having some occasional heating problems with the rack mount enclosure for the main DAW. This one only has one small (60mm) exhaust fan and with the silent design Antec PSU that has a slow moving fan heat builds up in the case. I'm pumping lots of air in but just not enough exhaust. For heavy work (and always for heavy gaming sessions :) ) I sometimes Take the top off... so... considering drilling out the top and mounting a top exhaust fan... or just trying another case with better exhaust.

For mounting drives I think I have finally found removable bays that are going to work for me, at least for PCI-E drives.

These are from a company called SNT and they have the drives securely mounted in the caddy but, with the back of the drive exposed and the e-sata connections couple directly to the enclosure using it's e-sata connectors.

I like the design... a little too soon to celebrate but, so far so good. :)

Always striving for the 'ideal scene'. :) Trying one of their regular PCI enclosures as well.. this one doesn't use the 'standard' DIN connectors that most use... we'll see.

Glad to hear your computer case is working so well for you Carl.

Perry

[Carl G.]

Perry,
I forgot to mention that the gamer case I have mounts the PS on the bottom of the case (makes way for the larger fan on the top of the case).

Oh...btw... games don't interest me at all - and I've never played one on this machine. :) Actually the fact this was a 'gamers' case, repulsed me from buying it.... but I finally yielded.... because of the massive air cooling at low noise.

[Perry]

Perry,
I forgot to mention that the gamer case I have mounts the PS on the bottom of the case (makes way for the larger fan on the top of the case).

Oh...btw... games don't interest me at all - and I've never played one on this machine. :) Actually the fact this was a 'gamers' case, repulsed me from buying it.... but I finally yielded.... because of the massive air cooling at low noise.

Oh.. too bad!!! ;) :D I guess I'm not so easily repulsed... fairly serious gaming addiction... but at least I'm not in the casino with it (and there's one a few minutes away)... or on crack or whatever. ;) :rolleyes: :D

There are some really cool (that pun there not intended) cases to be had... Zalman has some really nice looking cases too... my problem was sitting three cases side by side and then cabling them all up without a bit of a nightmare mess. I did that for a while with Antec Sonata cases.. the original versions. I liked the side mount drive bays and their shock mounting and easy in and out but then when they were side by side behind my desk only the 'ouside' one was easy to access. Another cool thing (no pun!) was that the Sonata, in spite of being a rather small mid-size case, allowed a full length card to be mounted so long as it was in one of the bottom two PCI slots.

These were nice cases and I still have the three stored away in case :) I decide to go back to them later. These were close to some sort of perfection.. but not close enough! I like the Sonata II less than the original fwiw... too bad Antec changed it.. and while on this.. Antec had some rather serious problems with the PSU in the newer Sonata II cases... but not in their other PSU's. It was a problem with some capicitors (or something) that they were supplied with.

At any rate, I'm planning to next move all three of my computers out of their current simple rack and into a metal rack enclosure that has a smoked glass front door and opening side doors. There are cable access slots top and bottom (foam lined for closure around the cables). And there are fan mounts at the bottom and top of the case to draw air in from the bottom and out at the top so that there's airflow through the enclosure.

It's an attractive case that's suitable for home entertainment equipment or corporate hardware... or a school PA system or whatever.. with locking doors and so forth.

I found a place where I can buy this wholesale far cheaper than I would have ever dreamed (had to set up a business account with them to do it).

I plan to mount the unit then on wheels. I'm hoping that this finally will satisfy me once and for all all and I won't have any attention on mounting up my computers again any time soon. Maybe.... :)

Cheers,

Perry