Internal bit depth

[mikem]

HI Bob L, and all,

I am not am official user yet, although i am enjoying checking out the demo of Basic. I was wonder what the internal resolution of the calculations is, i realize that it is interger or fixed point and the eqs are float, but i cant find what bit depth the mixer and the rest are , 24?, 32?, 48?, 56?, 64?, i know that sound is what matters and it does sound very clear , but still, id like to know?, also, is there any difference in resolution, or quality between Full, lite, and Basic? for example, PT HD uses 48 fixed, but PT lite uses 32 float. ALot of questions.... thanks all

[Shawn]

From the help file it says 24 bit internally..
------------------------------------------------------

Resolution

This option displays a list of resolution settings for the entire session. This determines the destination resolution of the session and the audio device hardware must be capable of playback at this setting. The MultiTrack internally keeps all data at the 24 bit level and dithers or truncates on the final output only, according to the chosen settings. The following sub-menu choices are available:

Ø 16 Bits
Ø 20 Bits

Ø 24 Bits

This setting can be saved with your preferences.

F This setting determines the output channel FX F-Res patch point data resolution.

----------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean that if you're working with 16 bit files that they are being upped to 24 bits for all internal processing?

:)

[AudioAstronomer]

I beleive saw uses a 64-bit integer summing and integer math throughout (except the eq's)...

I actually took some time today to do intensive research into this (As im converting one of my new vst's to saw's native API... and going floating point to fixed point)... all I gotta say is wow. 32-bit floating point is trash.

good enough for rock n roll... but not good enough for me.

[Bob L]

The internal data is stored at 24 bits always... even 16 bit data is shifted up to 24 bits with zeros in the bottom bits to start out with.

From that point on, as things are processed and reverb is added and data is mixed together, the lower bits start to develop into real data, no longer remaining zeros.

All internal math is processed using 64 bit integer multiplies and divides... this actually takes things beyond many dsp chip processing capabilities. The eq uses certain algorithims processed in floating point, all of which are still written and handled in assembly language.

The internal summing bus stores data in 32 bit DWORDS, which allows for an internal summing of 128 tracks at full digital clipping without overload.

Now that you know all that, does it really matter... NO... use your ears.. that is what matters... the results are what is important... and SAWStudio, without a doubt, can deliver analog smooth sound at any resolution, if you do not trash the data with too many outside processing algorithims that switch it back and forth to floating point.

Bob L

[mikem]

Bob L and AudioAstronomer,

Thanks for the info about the internal processing and such, so true about not putting too much thought into bit depths.
I do realize it is the quality of the programming, for example, some of the cream of the industry outboard Weiss units use 32 float, but still are clearly top choice of mastering engineers who can afford them (not me) due to the quality of the code. While some of the 64flt plugins, (not naming any) IMHO dont sound as if they take full advantage of the resolution and it is more of a selling point than anything..... definately not aplicable to SAWstudio... the demo sounds great! aside from the beeps .. ill probably be getting on the SAWbasic or lite in the near future.

[mikem]

One more note / question about this demo, 9 times of ten when i load it up, and fire up the country radio edl demo, i go to tweak the delay, but the plugin graphic, well, disappears.

The plugin is still there, but, instead of looking like the delay plugin, it looks like whatever graphics would have behind the plugin (multitrack or whatevr) making it impossible to do anything with it. Is this a bug?, or is it my comp maybe infested with something or too slow. Sorry if this had been discussed before.

cheers,

mike

[Shawn]

I've had this happen to me before with both the Levelizer and the EQ plugin, it seems to only happen when accessing one of the pop up/drop down menus while playback is active, I stop playback, and remove the plugin, but re-applying the plugin again won't fix it, I don't remember if just closing/reopening the session gets it back to normal, or if you also have to close/reopen SAWStudio as well.

[MMP]

As I understand it, in order to get fast screen redraws, Bob has to paint bypassing many Windows routines. Make sure your video card is not using any kind of caching, and turn off all the "effects" on the display properties menu.


I'm in Saw Studio 60+ hours a week and never have repainting problems.

MM

[Shawn]

Thanks for the reply Michael, I'll check my video settings for the caching settings, I'm pretty sure I have all effects turned off in windows already.

:)

[Bob L]

Try sliding the Advanced Troubleshooting Hardware acceleration slider down a notch or two in the Windows Display Properties section.

(Right-Click the desktop... Settings... Advanced... TroubleShooting)

This will turn off bitblt caching for many video cards which may be causing the display problem. If not, try going down another notch.

Bob L