Three questions re using SAW for complete novices!

[canipus]

undefined
Ok I'm new to this whole Saw experience thing but I'm not sure this is going to do what I expect a DAW to do and I've played with Sonar, Nuendo, Samplitude (currently the one I'm leaning towards) and now SAW.

Three quick questions. I love the power of the Automation and like the way you can be creative with the native plugs and have everything recorded in the Automation recorder but let's say I'm working on a section of music in a track and I have automated some panning followed by changing the mix on the reverb in real time and it sounds beautiful and everything is captured in the Automation. Now I need to just bring the fader up and down on the track over a 15 second duration (on top of the stuff I've already done). I screw up the fader movement and need to run it again. The only way I can see of undoing the last automation run is to keep using the snapshot (asterisk) facility and then a CTRL <. Is there no way at all you can grab the automation color in the MT window and delete just that last automation action. If I highlight the track section and press delete I lose all the automation I've done. Currently the only way I can see is to make sure I take snapshots and then I can undo the last action, right? Now this bugs me if there is no other way at getting at the last action to undo without the snapshot. It's not engineering fullproof. Sods law dictates that in the heat of a busy fast session I'm going to get to lots of automation perfect and then I'll run another edit and it will be wrong and because of the pressure I forgot to take a snapshot and now I can't undo the screwup without undoing my good automation takes as well. Is this true or I'm I just blatently missing something here. This automation is so powerful that I'm starting to use it as a creative tool (sweeping reverb with sweeping pans with changing frequencies - get the picture?). I've got the power and I want to use it but I don't see any easy way to get at the very last automation run and get rid of it unless I have purposely made an undo snapshot. This is prone to operator error. Please tell me I'm wrong.

Second question: Currently you can only see the colored automation marks in the MT by having the AUT buttom on. The trouble is if I leave this on to see the Automation display I'm also in automation mode and if I press play and forget, then every knob and lever I twiddle is getting recorded which is annoying. Is this a question of discipline simply you MUST remember when Automation is on and remember when to switch it off. It may sound daft but other apps have a global AUT facility and a track AUT facility. It appears the SAW AUT is global; once that button is pressed in, everything is getting recorded on all tracks - because if you switch to another track in the MT view to experiment, the new track automatically becomes the hot track. Again maybe this is just newbie inexperience and I'm missing something really basic here?

Final question: how the heck do you set up the windows so I can see a mixer view of my input tracks (say the first half dozen channels and see the o/p section (specifically the Channel 1 + 2 o/p channels). I know you can switch views easily but i don't want to switch, I want them both there in front of me on the screen just like all the other DAWs I've tried. Do I have to uncouple the zoom mixer so that it doesn't follow the i/p channels on the F mixer or is there an easier way?

Thank you for your patience,

regards etc

[mghtx]

Don't you have to turn automation on and off in all recording software?

Set up the windows like you want and then assign an F-key for that view.

In all software you have to adjust. SAW is no different in that aspect.

[ghowardjr]

undefined the only way I see of undoing the last automation run is to keep using the snapshot (asterisk) facility and then a CTRL <. Is there no way at all you can grab the automation color in the MT window and delete just that last automation action

Actually, there's several ways of undoing stuff you don't want in automation. The simplest is to use the b and e keys to mark the area of automation you don't want to keep and and hit the delete key. It's gone without disturbing any previous automation entries.

In areas of mixed automation, click on the the automation change you want to edit (each one signified by diff. color) and hit the "V" key. This will filter down the automation to where you're just viewing one type of automation. This will allow you to precisely delete the automation entries you want to remove. Also, experiment with the stretching and shrinking of automation entries as well as using the "offset" feature to adjust an otherwise good piece of automation up or down.

Hope this helps and keep asking questions...

Gary

[Yura]

About automation last undo:

it is realy kind of mising things of undo behavior of SAW
in my opinion. realy, we can do it with snapshot, but there
will be good votes for fixing this, I tthink mr. Lentini
will fix it very fast. it is the GOOD idea. Well, I use SAWs
automation in most cases not live recording it on the fly,
thats why this problem dosnt borrow me. I do ALL automtion
changes with very faster builton futures of SAW : inserting,
adjusting marked ofsets, shifting, shrinking, fadeup&down,
copyng, cutting, etc. (you can see there is very powerfull of
feature -the "view filter" that allows to see only one automation
color code at the time and edit it) AND IT WOULD BE MUCH FASTER
AND presisionest as expiriense says. howhever, I'm to vote to
fix last little thing.

about canceling automation on any track:
yes, automation is VERY GLOBAL in SAW. but that idea growed not
on empty place. BUT. you want to here your choosing track withot
automatoin? simple way here. copy track or number of tracks you
want to any of 8 sub layers by pair of clicks. without automation.
and playback! you can also choose marked range of this copy, not
the whole lengh.

about the last qstn:
you can easy unswitch eny switches between any of parts of console or
and multitrack buy clicking on minus icon of corrspnd window or make your setup of it from global menu. plus using F-keys gives windows ordering to every of your needs.

[canipus]

GARY:

Thanks a million. Re the automation that is EXACTLY what I was looking for. You made my day or I should say SAW has made my day. It's taking a lot of getting used to but there is a lot of power there. I think this is a get the manual out and read it situation. The thing is I'm trying to do a quick assessment in the shortest possible time and I'm trying to learn as much as possible without reading the manual - unless I was going to make SAW my platform of choice and then studying the manual is a prerequisite. However, I see from your response there is an enormous amount of stuff under the hood and maybe it's unfair to judge SAW without spending time studying a bit and diving deeper. Meanwhile this answers one of my concerns perfectly.

Do you have any advise to offer on setting up a screen / window so that I can see both my input tracks and output tracks at the same time?

Thanks for the response.
regards etc.

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Regarding your meters question - one thing you can do is to move the output (or return) track up into the visible range of your full mixer -

Say you have 16 tracks in your mix, feeding two output tracks.

To move your output tracks up under your 16 mix tracks (and move their faders and meters over on the Fmixer), first hit the big "O" to go to the output tracks, then left click on the track numbers on output tracks 1 and 2. Now hold down the SHIFT key, and left click on one of the two selected track numbers.
Next, hit the big "I" button to go back to the input section, and finally, hold down the SHIFT key again, and left click on input track # 17. Presto, your two output tracks have moved up to be between Tracks 16 and 17, both on the multitrack, and on the F Mixer. So now, you can see your output track meters on the Fmixer alongside your input tracks.

(Oh - if also, you should unselect the two output track numbrs - just left click them again - if you want independant control over the faders)

You can save this as a template, by going to File/Mix Template/Save, and giving it a name. Then you can quickly set it back up when you want to.

To restore the track arrangement, just hold down CONTROL and left click any track number.

Dave Tosti-Lane

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

Also, I forgot to mention you can also just drag the output tracks up by hloding the shift key and left-click-dragging them. The whole step about selecting the two tracks is only necessary if you want to move multiples - if you are only using a single stereo output track, just SHIFT-Left-Click-Drag it into place.

Dave Tosti-Lane

[canipus]

Dave,

Amazing. It works.
Many many many thanks. You guys have really boosted my morale cos' there's nothing more frustrating than starting to learn a new item of software that is non Microsoft in its user interface.
I'm starting to like this application more and more.

Regards to all you gurus etc.

[Bob L]

Seems like the View Filter question has been answered... very powerful way to work.

About the global automation... I recommend leaving the Automation mode OFF unless you are writing or modifying automation... with the mode OFF, you are free to change anything you want and it becomes the default or starting setting for the track.

The design of the automation when active is such that it becomes a simple matter to turn it ON, and then start mixing... everything you touch will be remembered and your mix will playback exact... this is part of the ease and power of SAWStudio's automation... Then you can see it and move it, copy it, save it as a gallery entry, delete sections of it, then re-write new sections... etc.

Now do I use it that way... hardly ever.

I have found much more power in the offline automation where I can tweak each move perfectly and place it where I want and then use the Slopes to make sonic adjustments that are unique, I believe, in the industry.

Live automation moves write hundreds of entries which eventually will turn to thousands which will eventually start bogging down the mix experience and also make it harder to edit and adjust.

Offline automation can accomplish the same or similar or different results with very few moves... for instance a quick fade written live from 0db to -inf will write hundreds of entries... a similar result can be accomplished with one Mute command or one fader move dropped straight down to -inf and then marked and sloped to 2000 ms... or whatever length you wanted your fade... or just a few key entries with slopes adjusted between them to create any unique fade curve you may imagine...

There is a lot to explore here rather than just trying to do what you already know... the same things that everyone else already knows and does...

SAWStudio is different for a reason... with all the SAME types of editing programs out there, why write another if its also 'Just The Same' :)

You are correct in assuming that a quick assesment will always come up short... SAWStudio does almost everything different than other DAWS... what many eventually realize is that that is not necessarily a bad thing.

The design has developed over a 12 year period in my audio/computer career.. I have over 30 years experience in the industry as a recording engineer, physical console designer and builder, musician, producer, studio owner (3 different ones), independent engineer working on independent projects in studios all over the country on all kinds of consoles and gear imaginable, and a 7 year journey as a live mixing engineer on the road like Frank Farrell is doing now, with big name artists, although quite a few years back now. :)

So the design incorporates all of those experiences plus my perhaps unique way of finding solutions to age-old problems... now you may not like my concepts and how they have turned out in the evolution of SAWStudio, but you certainly owe yourself the right to make an intelligent choice about that... and that takes a little SAWing to do properly.

One of the easiest and best things you can do is to read the manual or helpfile straight through... take an hour... don't memorize every keystroke, but become aware of all the concepts and features... features that you will most likely never think to look up, because these things are things you have never probably seen done before... or at least in the same manner, even on the most expensive industry standard systems.

Also, be open to change... SAWStudio will change the way you think and work with audio... if you let it... and believe me, if you do, your audio life will never be the same. :)

Don't be afraid of switching views... in SAWStudio that is a major part of the interface and years was spent on the code to make it happen instantly and glitch free the way it does...

You want to see ins and outs together... fine... simply lock the Zoom mixer view to outs by Right-Clicking the close button at the top right corner... when its locked it wont change tracks unless you change it... you are free to jump around the interface and hit F-Keys and change views and everytime the Zoom Mixer is visible it will be locked on the outputs.

But you should also not ignore the much simpler way to use the interface to its maximum capacity, by accepting and being excited about using the F-Keys and other hot zones for getting anywhere instantly...

For me, screen real-estate is precious... using the space it takes for a zoom mixer to sit idle on the outputs eats up valuable working space for the MT and other views... I know for me, I don't need to see the outputs all the time... I need to keep checking them all the time... so a simple click on the O zone at the bottom of the MT gets me there when I need... instantly while playing or recording... when I want to get back to other things a simple click on the I zone takes me back to inputs or the R zone takes me to Returns to check reverbs... by the way, here's a tip... press the Alt key when clicking in the I, R and O zones and you will return back to where you just came from... for example... you are in the Wide Mixer View on the kick track, input 12, and you need to adjust the reverb on return 1, click the R zone, make your adjustment, then click Alt-I zone, and you will be right back at the kick drum without any searching...

When you take the time to learn the navigation and practice it, you will find power at your fingertips that you never new possible in the other systems you may be familiar with... SAWStudio is different... enjoy that fact, rather than worry about that fact.

Have fun with the demo... give it a fair shake, but not by trying to figure it out on your own... you will miss most everything if you do that... and try taking the perspective that that is not because of poor designing... but because of unique designing, that offers the benefits to each user who takes the time to look and like what they see.

Watch the demo videos to see SAWStudio demonstrated as I work it, and listen to the tutorials that Jeanne spent so much time creating... these are all fantastic resources for taking the SAWStudio experience to its fullest.

Enjoy the journey, and I promise you the sonic quality you can create in SAWStudio and the speed with which you can create it, will stun all of your clients.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

I know I finally gave in to what bobs saying. Steve and I had many discussions about it, saw doesnt do this like this. Why cant saw perform this function when I do this? Then one day, recently I sat down, read the manual, watched the videos.

BAM. Instant revelation and my recording life has been born anew. It is truly, and completely a revolutionary way to work. But at times it can be like learning to control a gyroscope when you've only played with a yo-yo.

very, very amazing things! Bob is totally on the spot, Ive been following his advice and I cant say it enough, wow!

[canipus]

"One of the easiest and best things you can do is to read the manual or helpfile straight through... take an hour... don't memorize every keystroke, but become aware of all the concepts and features... features that you will most likely never think to look up, because these things are things you have never probably seen done before... or at least in the same manner, even on the most expensive industry standard systems".
Will do Bob. Thanks also for taking the time here to give me some conceptual grounding. You are absolutely correct about the dangers of missing essentials without approaching this the right way.
The off-line automation you discuss is a case in point. I didn't even realize you could do what you describe. Frankly I'm stunned. I will definitely check this out because I'm very creative with my approach to mixing and even the on-line automation is allowing me do things I couldn't do any other way. I'm already using the automation like an instrument rather than part of a normal console. However, the way you describe the off-line mode appears that this is even more powerful - (and I didn't even realize this existed).
I will make time and review the videos and manual.

Thanks and regards