what is the best sound interface for sawstudio

[smp]

I am using sawstudio lite (SSL). I had previously used the Layla 20 card in my old computer withSawPlus. I transferred the card to my new computer (XP pro) to use with SSL. I used the latest drivers from Echo and everything installed perfectly. Unfortuantely, the sound is terrible in SSL. Lot's of static and crackles. I played with the buffers and size and tried all combinations. it actually helped a little bit but not enough. I realize it is old technology, however, if anyone has any advice, please offer.

Otherwise, what is the current recommendation for sound "card" for SSL...I would like to be able to record up to 8 tracks simultaneously.

Thanks!

Steve

[UpTilDawn]

For 8 simultaneous tracks, you can hardly go wrong with the RME line... highly recommended here and by myself as well.

There are a couple other very favored brands and many models that work well with Saw and a pc.... I just don't happen to have experience with them, but others will chime in.

You might shoot a price range out there and that will help to get more specific suggestions.

DanT

[Craig Allen]

RME - I 2nd that.

[mako]

RME - hands down - for both laptop and desktop.

Reason - they're like SawStudio - they WORK and do not give headaches (unless you want to get into Total mix :) )

mako

[Richard Rupert]

I've been using the Dakota card with two Tango converters (http://frontierdesign.com/Products/Dakota_ very successfully for 6 years, and just very recently switched to the M-Audio Profire LightBridge firewire interface... still with the Tango converters. All's working well. I will say however, that the drivers for both these products are not as good as I understand the RME drivers to be... I cannot record using the LIVE mode because of latency issues. But otherwise everything is rock solid and good sounding.

My 2c.

[Bob L]

Your old Echo card should still work... others with those cards may chime in here... there were definitely driver issues along the way. If your drivers have ASIO, try using the ASIO driver model in SAWStudio's Driver Model Options menu selection.... that may fix your problems.

An RME Hammerfall Lite and a Behringer ADA8000 are an great way to get started with 8 channels for cheap... add another Behringer and you have 16 channels of rock solid performance.

Bob L

[Jay Q]

M-Audio also has some great options.

[Carl G.]

I've used Lynx for many years (currently Lynx Two) ... excellent audio quality.
With the LS-ADAT add-on card, it provides sixteen channel 24bit ADAT optical I/O), or the LS-AES (8 channel 24bit/96khz AES/EBU or S/PDIF I/O)

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxtwo.html

[gregangst]

RME works great. I use the RME FireFace 800 and two RME Octa Mic units.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I use an RME HDSP 9652 fed by two Behringer ADA8000 units, and, in the studio, an old Midiman Flying Cow. Performance has been rock solid. The RME interface and drivers allow me to get low enough latency to use SawStudioLite for live PA mixes while recording. Many other interfaces would NOT stand up to this kind of use.

The fact that your old sound card worked fine in an earlier system, though, suggests that there may be other issues besides the interface hardware. Some of Echo's drivers have been known to have problems. Occasionally, though, even the computer itself may have either hardware or configuration problems that cause trouble for realtime applications like multichannel audio recording. Unfortunately, because you made several changes to your system at once (new computer, new OS, new drivers...) it is difficult to know what caused the problem. It is therefore possible (though maybe not as likely) that even putting in an RME interface would not solve your problem. Still, IMO an RME card is NEVER a bad investment, even if you afterwards discover that the computer itself was really the problem.

[musicmanwolf]

Hi, i use a Tascam fire wire device a fw1082. It has eight channels and a controller/ motorized fader board. Everything works very well with Sawstudio and very low latency using ASIO drivers. You can also get an eight channel model without the controller, just eight mic pre amps only. I have been very happy with it.

[HapHazzard]

RME
In PC #1 is a HDSP9652 with 3 ADA8000 for a 24 ch I/O
In PC #2 is 2 Digi 8 (which is for sale) I use the analog I/O for virtual instruments and send to PC #1

For the NEW Thinkpad notebook I going to round up a RME Miultiface II and a host PCI Express card (boy that won't be cheap) and with that a ADA8000 for a total of 16 ch I/O.

I've had a few other cards before like Delta 1010, Emu, and I'm checking out a M-Audio Profire Lightbridge (32 ch I/O Adat) and found the RME product to be much more robust and very very low latancy)

One that has me very curious in the Digigram stuff (http://www.digigram.com/) . Ethernet protocal with 64 ch I/O at 196 through a CAT5 cable:eek:.
Very Very interesting but WAY out of my price range:(

You can get a Digi96/8 PAD (http://www.rme-audio.de/old/english/digi96/digi96pa.htm) for real cheap off Ebay for next to nothing just to try the RME stuff out. That' how I got hooked.

Hap

[HapHazzard]

I almost forgot my Tascam DM-24. You can Find these REAL Cheap now and some with FW cards in them (24 ch I/O via Firewire). Bob has a template for it and the routing will drive you totally NUTs, but don't let it stop you.

Hap

[tomasino]

M-Audio also has some great options.

M-Audio FW1814 totally rocks!
But you should be able to get some mileage out of that echo. Like Bob said.

[TotalSonic]

Performance quality will be determined by the soundcard's drivers - to me RME (as mentioned in many previous threads) and Sydec's solutions - http://www.sydec.be - offer the best performance in terms of stability, latency, and virtual routing for use in a SAW rig.

Beyond that - sound quality is ultimately determined by the quality of the AD converters. To my ear the best sounding converters that are still some what reasonably priced are made by Lavry - http://www.lavryengineering.com - and Mytek - http://www.mytekdigital.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Oz Nimbus]

Happy Fireface user here. What a great piece of gear. It just works & doesn't give me any grief.

[Bruce Callaway]

I am an Echo user (layla 20 previously and layla 24 currently) and it seems to me that something is wrong with your configuration. Have you tried reinstalling older drivers to see if that works? I now use Layla24 units and the only time I have experienced pops and crackles was when I tried to sample at 96Khz in Live mode. In the end I wound the laylas back to 44.1Khz. I havent tried to retest them as yet. If this is not the case, I would email Echo and ask them for advice.

Other than that, there is plenty of good advice on other products in this thread. Generally speaking, I have been very happy with the Layla24s and would consider an upgrade to newer Echo products. The firewire products look interesting for mobile laptop recording especially the 12 channel unit. Other than Echo, RME would be my next upgrade.

[smp]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I will let you now how it turns out!

Steve

[Microstudio]

Motu 2408 MK2 been using it without any problems for many years.

[Base1studio]

An RME Hammerfall Lite and a Behringer ADA8000 are an great way to get started with 8 channels for cheap... add another Behringer and you have 16 channels of rock solid performance.

Bob L

Definately RME...very stable...I have both 9652 and digiface/cardbus setups...each have been rock solid. ADA and Presonus LT preamps. Together with SAW, killer setup.

[Rabbit]

Happy Fireface user here. What a great piece of gear. It just works & doesn't give me any grief.

Amen to that.:)

[Fat Cat Music]

Hello,

I have been using RME Digiface and Multiface cards for years. Steinberg packaged the RME for Nuendo as the Digiset and Multiset. You can find those on ebay for less money than the RME only because nobody knows they are exactly the same piece of equipment.

The advantage of the Digiface is the fact that you can couple what ever audio to ADAT interface you want. I have used the Behringer ADA8000, the Presonus Digimax, Audient ASP008 mic pre's with the RME (I recently sold a Grace m801 with a Mitek 8X192 AD/DA and bought three Presonus and the Audient in their place).

The Audient is significantly cleaner at dynamic extremes than the Presonus and for most applications the Behringers work quite adequately. I am not convinced there is a real $1000 ($700-800 street price) difference between the Behringers and the Presonus. I bought the Presonus to satisfy a client (the built-in limiters sound a little odd if you actually end limiting a signal).

I think the Grace is a beautiful sounding preamp but it just is not cost effective in reality. Eventually I will replace the Presonus with another pair of Audient pre's (which I think are about 99.1% of the Grace) but for the time being I actually find the Presonus and the Behringers pretty much interchangeable.

I made new faceplates for my Behringers so that my clients don't have to settle for such low quality pre's!:D (with the new blue faceplate I have had several paople tell me how much better they like these new custom pre's than those off-the-shelf Presonus:D !)

Three Behringers in combination with the RME Digiface you have a 24 track studio in a four space rack and a laptop.

I have used the Digigram VX series with my laptop and I believe they are as stable as the RME and sound very sweet. I agree with Carl the Lynx are very stable and sound very good.

On my recommendation my old business partner put Digigram cards in his Canopus Edius video system and has had absolutely no problems. They are rock solid and sound very good.

I teach at a college and the school has Aardvark and Alesis as per the advice of the IT department - no ears :( oh well. The Aardvark sounds ok but is just not anywhere close to the RME in stability or over all sound quality. The Alesis sounds like - well - an Alesis ADAT - go figure :o .

I have tried various firewire interface units and have preferred to keep my RME Digiface/Multiface cards (including the RME Fireface which can have firewire issues with XP sp2).

Have fun and make the universe better with more music!
DRBurroughs

[CurtZHP]

I've been using the Soundscape (Sydec) Mixtreme192, and the thing's been absolutely bulletproof. I have it connected to a Tascam DM-24.

I used to have an M-Audio Delta 1010, which I got rid of when I got the DM-24. Been kicking myself ever since. It's a good stable unit, and very affordable.

I'm starting to research the RME stuff, simply because I've been hearing rumors that Solid State Logic, the new owners of Soundscape, are possibly going to phase out Mixtreme support in favor of the MUCH more expensive Mixpander and its associated I/O's.

What's the big complaint with TotalMix, anyway? I've heard a lot of negative comments about it.

[Craig Allen]

What's the big complaint with TotalMix, anyway? I've heard a lot of negative comments about it.
Total Mix is very flexible, but also very complicated. You can route any input to any output as well as re-routing and software outputs to any output. It can be kind of overwhelming to use at times.

[DominicPerry]

TotalMix is fine, just work out a preset or two, (might take an hour and a bit of frustration), save the presets and you're done. It's complicated because it lets you set up a mix of all hardware inputs and all software playback to each output. So you can decide what you want to hear from your 24 channels of mic pres plus what you want from your 24 channels of SAW playback and send that to channels 1+2 of the sound card output. THEN, you can do another totally different mix for output channels 3+4 of your soundcard. THEN you can do another for outputs 5+6 etc etc etc until you've got to 23+24. That's a lot of options.

I do two presets. One gives me NONE of the hardware inputs at the outputs, only the sound from SAW, which I use for tape style monitoring. The other gives me the hardware inputs from 1+2 straight back on the outputs, plus the sound of SAW, and I use that for vocal monitoring when the singer is fussy (including me).

It's certainly not an obstacle to buying an RME interface, it's just something which you need to be very familiar with to change if a client is looking over your shoulder.

Dominic

[smp]

I am an Echo user (layla 20 previously and layla 24 currently) and it seems to me that something is wrong with your configuration. Have you tried reinstalling older drivers to see if that works? I now use Layla24 units and the only time I have experienced pops and crackles was when I tried to sample at 96Khz in Live mode. In the end I wound the laylas back to 44.1Khz. I havent tried to retest them as yet. If this is not the case, I would email Echo and ask them for advice.

Other than that, there is plenty of good advice on other products in this thread. Generally speaking, I have been very happy with the Layla24s and would consider an upgrade to newer Echo products. The firewire products look interesting for mobile laptop recording especially the 12 channel unit. Other than Echo, RME would be my next upgrade.

Thanks for the advice. I have tried every driver release from the original. I disabled the built in sound module on my motherboard. I tried all of the settings (WDM, Purewave and ASIO). I tried every combination of buffer and sample size. I locked the sampling at 44.1Khz. Still to no avail. I put the card back in my old computer (Win98) and it worked fine. I emailed Echo but they are away until after the New Year.

I have been researching the RME and am thinking about Digi96-8 plus the Behringer ADA converter. Thanks to everyone!!!

Steve

[MikeDee]

Thanks for the advice. I have tried every driver release from the original. I disabled the built in sound module on my motherboard. I tried all of the settings (WDM, Purewave and ASIO). I tried every combination of buffer and sample size. I locked the sampling at 44.1Khz. Still to no avail. I put the card back in my old computer (Win98) and it worked fine. I emailed Echo but they are away until after the New Year.

I have been researching the RME and am thinking about Digi96-8 plus the Behringer ADA converter. Thanks to everyone!!!

Steve

Steve, I read through this thread a bit quickly, so I'm not sure whether the following has been addressed (regarding the Layla):

1. Make certain to disable your wireless adapter; turn off its hardware switch, if it has one.
2.Be sure to disable all network connections, as well as 1394 Net Adapters (if you have FireWire).

HTH,

[Grekim]

Apogee 8000 into a Lynx AES 16 here. Nice near zero latency options are possible with the Lynx software. Very solid rig. But, check out Lynx Aurora for an all in one setup.

[Dave Labrecque]

Hey, DRB,

Do you ever have heat issues stacking the Behringers like that? Sounds like you've got no air gaps 'tween 'em. Mine get pretty hot.

[Naturally Digital]

I'm starting to research the RME stuff, simply because I've been hearing rumors that Solid State Logic, the new owners of Soundscape, are possibly going to phase out Mixtreme support in favor of the MUCH more expensive Mixpander and its associated I/O's.I wouldn't pay too much attention to those rumors at this point. I'm not saying it won't happen because I have no idea and haven't asked anyone in the know. The Mixtreme is a very solid card at a good price point. I don't know what the sales volume is like but I'd guess it would make sense to keep it around or perhaps develop a version of the Mixtreme with different I/O. In any case I wouldn't start worrying about it being phased out until an announcement is actually made. Meanwhile I'd enjoy your '192/DM-24 combo. It really makes for a great rig. I had that setup until I sold off my DM-24.

I just upgraded to the Mixpander9/Ibox48AA mixpander powerpack. I'm now at a point where the additional I/O is necessary and the xtra DSP and routing flexibility is coming in really handy. So far I'm lovin this rig! All 48 inputs/outputs with SAWStudio at low latency and with the DSP front end.

Still using the Mixtreme192 in the mastering rig. Also have a LynxOne, just sold an RME Hammerfall9652 (will be upgraded to the HDSP at some point) and have Creamware's PulsarI and LunaII cards. All these work flawlessly with SAWStudio. The Creamware cards are the only "finnicky" ones and have given me minor grief. I'd guess the newer PulsarII would/could be a little more stable. I've still used them on numerous recordings without a crash.

Anyway, HTH.

[IraSeigel]

TotalMix is fine, just work out a preset or two, (might take an hour and a bit of frustration), save the presets and you're done. It's complicated because it lets you set up a mix of all hardware inputs and all software playback to each output. So you can decide what you want to hear from your 24 channels of mic pres plus what you want from your 24 channels of SAW playback and send that to channels 1+2 of the sound card output. THEN, you can do another totally different mix for output channels 3+4 of your soundcard. THEN you can do another for outputs 5+6 etc etc etc until you've got to 23+24. That's a lot of options.

I do two presets. One gives me NONE of the hardware inputs at the outputs, only the sound from SAW, which I use for tape style monitoring. The other gives me the hardware inputs from 1+2 straight back on the outputs, plus the sound of SAW, and I use that for vocal monitoring when the singer is fussy (including me).

It's certainly not an obstacle to buying an RME interface, it's just something which you need to be very familiar with to change if a client is looking over your shoulder.

Dominic

Hi Dominic,
I assume you do these settings in the Matrix of TotalMix. Any chance you could take a screenshot of your matrix settings, add a caption or 2 describing what the setup is for, and post it?

Thanks,
Ira

[DominicPerry]

Ira,

I'd be pleased to post some examples, but, to cut a long story short, I don't have an RME interface at the moment. I do have two of my original preset files from Jan 07, but I can't remember what they do. I'm happy to PM them if that helps. In about a week I'm expecting to have another digiface, and I'll do some screenshots then. (And I can record and post my vocal track that I KNOW everyone has been waiting for).:D :D

I do use the matrix view, but also the submix view, which makes life a little easier. It's a pity totalmix won't run without the interface attached. It's a bit like ip address subnetting, once you've got it, you wondered why it ever confused you.

Dominic

[IraSeigel]

Ira,

It's a pity totalmix won't run without the interface attached.
Dominic

AGREED!!

Yes, please do make some screenshots of your various Matrix (or Submix) settings when you're able. PM or post to your website (?) for us to have a look.

Ira

[CurtZHP]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those rumors at this point. I'm not saying it won't happen because I have no idea and haven't asked anyone in the know. The Mixtreme is a very solid card at a good price point. I don't know what the sales volume is like but I'd guess it would make sense to keep it around or perhaps develop a version of the Mixtreme with different I/O. In any case I wouldn't start worrying about it being phased out until an announcement is actually made. Meanwhile I'd enjoy your '192/DM-24 combo. It really makes for a great rig. I had that setup until I sold off my DM-24.

I just upgraded to the Mixpander9/Ibox48AA mixpander powerpack. I'm now at a point where the additional I/O is necessary and the xtra DSP and routing flexibility is coming in really handy. So far I'm lovin this rig! All 48 inputs/outputs with SAWStudio at low latency and with the DSP front end.

Still using the Mixtreme192 in the mastering rig. Also have a LynxOne, just sold an RME Hammerfall9652 (will be upgraded to the HDSP at some point) and have Creamware's PulsarI and LunaII cards. All these work flawlessly with SAWStudio. The Creamware cards are the only "finnicky" ones and have given me minor grief. I'd guess the newer PulsarII would/could be a little more stable. I've still used them on numerous recordings without a crash.

Anyway, HTH.



Yeah, the more I think about it, it ain't over 'til it's over. The rig will still go its job regardless of manufacturer support. I just like to have all my options adequately researched in the event I need to change platforms.