Problem when using SRP to Record a marked area

[RobertV]

When recording (punching in), I prefer to mark an area and use ERP to start playback a few seconds before the marked area. What occasionally happens is that, the moment I press the ERP button, the Left Edge of the marked area jumps to the current cursor position (line) and recording starts straight away. Oops! Once that behaviour occurs, the only way out seems to be closing and re-opening SawStudio.
What I have noticed is that this only happens when previously I mark the start of the area by pressing ‘B’ during playback to determine the punch in location. As this is a very convenient way of setting the next punch in location.
Is there something I am doing wrong? or is there a way to get out of the this habit.


Robert V.

[Jay Q]

When recording (punching in), I prefer to mark an area and use ERP to start playback a few seconds before the marked area. What occasionally happens is that, the moment I press the ERP button, the Left Edge of the marked area jumps to the current cursor position (line) and recording starts straight away. Oops! Once that behaviour occurs, the only way out seems to be closing and re-opening SawStudio.
What I have noticed is that this only happens when previously I mark the start of the area by pressing ‘B’ during playback to determine the punch in location. As this is a very convenient way of setting the next punch in location.
Is there something I am doing wrong? or is there a way to get out of the this habit.


Robert V.
Not sure if this is the problem, Robert, but are you also marking the end of the area during playback? if you hit B during playback, you also have to hit the E key during playback, otherwise SS will keep starting the marked area from wherever the cursor starts. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Jay

[Bob L]

Yes... that is correct... once you begin an active mark during playback, you must finish it with the E-Key.

I just modified the code for this next update that automatically resets that condition now when playback is stopped.

Bob L

[Grekim]

I was just going to ask a related question. Is there a way to extend the punch out point (marked area) AFTER you have either begun recording or hit play in the SRP? I can see this being a very useful feature in the following instances:
1. Singer was just going to fix 1st half of chorus, but the take is going very well and it makes sense to punch the whole chorus.
2. Incompetant SAW operator meant to be in regular record mode and not punch in/out mode and recording ends in the middle of the world's best take.

[UpTilDawn]

Yes... that is correct... once you begin an active mark during playback, you must finish it with the E-Key.

I just modified the code for this next update that automatically resets that condition now when playback is stopped.

Bob L

Nice to hear Bob. This will cure some of my accidental key hits when I meant to tap the spacebar but caught the B key in the process.

[Arco]

I was just going to ask a related question. Is there a way to extend the punch out point (marked area) AFTER you have either begun recording or hit play in the SRP? I can see this being a very useful feature in the following instances:
1. Singer was just going to fix 1st half of chorus, but the take is going very well and it makes sense to punch the whole chorus.
2. Incompetant SAW operator meant to be in regular record mode and not punch in/out mode and recording ends in the middle of the world's best take.


quickly punch back in (hit the Enter key). You'll lose a little but maybe you'll get luck and it will be in between phrases or it will be something you can then go back and punch to fix.

or just set up to punch by "hand" instead of using marked areas. punch in on the early side (trim later) and punch out only when sure.

[Dave Labrecque]

Yes... that is correct... once you begin an active mark during playback, you must finish it with the E-Key.

I just modified the code for this next update that automatically resets that condition now when playback is stopped.

Bob L

Bob, are you saying we will no longer have to hit E in playback to get out of this marking mode? That would be great. Thanks!

[Bob L]

Yes... you can press E to end it while playback continues... or if you stop playback it ends the mark there.

Bob L

[RobertV]

Bob
Great..Thanks! :D

RobertV

[studio-c]

2. Incompetant SAW operator meant to be in regular record mode and not punch in/out mode and recording ends in the middle of the world's best take.
The good news is that it IS nondestructive. If you overshoot the punch end, just drag your new punch ending to the left, drag the beginning of the existing region (that you just 'recorded over') to the left, and you've repaired it. Whew.

And actually it's better to overshoot than punch out early. Overshooting between two vocal lines gives you the existing breath, and the new breath, and you can decide which one to use, or fade down and use none at all. Punching out early kills the end of the last word, and possibly any ambience, giving it an abrupt cut sound.

It wasn't so forgiving in the 24tk tape days :eek:

Cheers,
Scott

[Grekim]

The good news is that it IS nondestructive. If you overshoot the punch end, just drag your new punch ending to the left, drag the beginning of the existing region (that you just 'recorded over') to the left, and you've repaired it. Whew.

And actually it's better to overshoot than punch out early. Overshooting between two vocal lines gives you the existing breath, and the new breath, and you can decide which one to use, or fade down and use none at all. Punching out early kills the end of the last word, and possibly any ambience, giving it an abrupt cut sound.

It wasn't so forgiving in the 24tk tape days :eek:

Cheers,
Scott

It's all good really. But, what I meant though was instead of recording over a great take, that you didn't capture the great take because your auto punch ended too early.

[Grekim]

My two cents:

There will ALWAYS be a better take in there somewhere. Get a good one that captures the emotion you are trying to project...and move on. Don't turn the creative process into a technical analysis.

Mark

Couldn't agree more. I'd rather have one very good (emotion rich) whole take than a bunch of technically perfect pieced together punches any day.

[Cary B. Cornett]

I'd rather have one very good (emotion rich) whole take than a bunch of technically perfect pieced together punches any day. Agreed. Still, I know sometimes you don't get one "whole good take". In that case, I prefer not to replace any segment shorter than a whole phrase of the vocal. I have seen people punch between phonemes in the middle of a syllable in the middle of a word... ick! Technically clean result, but no "feel" left... :(

[Grekim]

Agreed. Still, I know sometimes you don't get one "whole good take". In that case, I prefer not to replace any segment shorter than a whole phrase of the vocal. I have seen people punch between phonemes in the middle of a syllable in the middle of a word... ick! Technically clean result, but no "feel" left... :(

Yes. What I do, if the client generally likes the take but wants another shot at part of it, then the new take gets another track. But, if there's clearly a part that stinks then I'd rather punch in on the track with the bad part. In the case of one bad note, I'd add another track and redo the whole line and then decide to copy the one-note-fix or use the whole new line.

[Cary B. Cornett]

Yes. What I do, if the client generally likes the take but wants another shot at part of it, then the new take gets another track. But, if there's clearly a part that stinks then I'd rather punch in on the track with the bad part. In the case of one bad note, I'd add another track and redo the whole line and then decide to copy the one-note-fix or use the whole new line. Your method makes sense to me. You may also want to consider simply switching layers on the same track to get an alternate take. I have found it a quick and easy solution.

[studio-c]

If it requires microsurgery, I will sometimes move the new punched region to an adjacent track, then I can see the two side by side, and schmooze the good parts together. You can even crossfade between the two tracks if it's a tricky syllable. It only takes 30 seconds to really nicely massage an overdub bit into a track. I've never gotten into layers, because I like to see the old and new parts at the same time. Then build-mix the composite track at the end. But usually I try and stick with a complete phrase, and just tweak the endpoint to transition it back into the original take.

Also, maybe I'm old school, but I tend to punch in and out manually, just because as was noted, sometimes the new take is going really well and you just want to let it ride and see how it goes. For my applications, marked-area punching is just for hands-free ease if you're tracking your own guitar overdubs or something.

And I really like Mark's remark about technical overanalysis. Very good point.

All just different ways of working. I tend to go for more organic and hands-on. But all methods are equally valid.

Cheers,
Scott

[RobertV]

Originally Posted by TotalSonic http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/showthread.php?p=75981#post75981)
Yeah - my envisioning of it would be a popup where you could see all a single tracks layers at once just like an additional Multitrack View - and be able to use all the same editing commands that you now can use in the Multitrack View to copy/paste, tweak regions and settings in/to/and from them.

I believe Bob stated that this was something that was on the "To Do List" but I don't think this is something planned for 4.1 (although I'd love to be surprised!)

Best regards,
Steve Berson


I don't think any of us (using Layers) would mind paying to have this feature next! (bribe? grovel! whatever)
Hoping!...Robert V.