Adjust Input Level store with Record Template?

[DBenkert]

Hi,

I am finally getting the hang of record templates I think and I was wondering if there is a way to store the Adjust Input Levels with them?

At this time, I have set all my labels and made some adjustments to the Inputs using Adjust Input Levels. If I stay in the session, the adjustments stay in tact, but when I do the Ctrl-Close and either save the record template or session, when I close and open it back up, all things are intact except for the Adjusted Input Levels.

Anyway, am I missing something? Are the Adjsuted Input Levels supposed to store with record templates or the Ctrl-Close option?

[Bob L]

The input level trim does not save with the edls or templates. It is designed to use as an on the spot signal gain override, but you should be adjusting main signal levels from a hardware trim control on your mic pres before the signal comes into SS. This adjustment resets when the program starts.

Bob L

[alchemist]

The input level trim does not save with the edls or templates. It is designed to use as an on the spot signal gain override, but you should be adjusting main signal levels from a hardware trim control on your mic pres before the signal comes into SS. This adjustment resets when the program starts.

What is the reasoning behind this? It doesn't make sense te me.

So, say that I am given tracks that were recorded pretty hot, and to make some headroom before hitting any plugin I trim all tracks by say, -6dB. Some by just -4dB. Some with no trim. I then proceed then to mix and save the EDL.

Then the next day I open the EDL and the mix is all wrong, because the trims are now all 0 dB.

If this is true, I can't understand the use of a trim level, besides for live mixing.

I think trim levels ought to be part of the EDL. I am missing something here?

[ambler]

The input level trim adjusts the level of the signal before it is recorded. It has no effect on the level of recorded tracks. Perhaps you are confusing the record input level trim with the Attenuator on the mixer channel.

Mark

[UpTilDawn]

The input level trim does not save with the edls or templates. It is designed to use as an on the spot signal gain override, but you should be adjusting main signal levels from a hardware trim control on your mic pres before the signal comes into SS. This adjustment resets when the program starts.

Bob L

The one instance where this routinely comes into play for me is when I am transfering cassette or lp recordings to the computer from my consumer system through the Multiface. I always have to boost the gain in Saw to get a healthy record level. I can see where being able to save a record template that saves these gain adjustments would be nice to have.

DanT

[Bob L]

The reasoning behind this was that you do not want these trims always active for the next day's session and the next... etc, because they would be ganging up on themselves... the trims always reset to zero because they are something that are designed to be used on the fly, to compensate for one weak or strong signal in a current session. As I said, you should always be controlling the record level from hardware mic pre trims as a default... and these trims will always be different, pretty much for each new performance and new instrument or vocal...

The record trim adjustments are there for very special use and should always be reset to zero when finished with that specific recording, in my opinion.

Another thing is you cannot see all these trim settings at one time and they would get very out of control very quickly if they were constantly built up on over days and days of recording without reset.

They also math the signal up or down, and as such are not the best way to acheive good signal to noise... adjust the signal gain at the hardware to bring the signal into perspective.

And regardless of their setting during recording, they have no bearing on the playback mix after that, so when you open your session tomorrow, the playback will be the same as it was... regardless of the record trim settings today.

Bob L

[alchemist]

Perhaps you are confusing the record input level trim with the Attenuator on the mixer channel.

:rolleyes: Yeah ... I got them confused. Resetting the trim every session makes perrrfect sense. I just checked and the attenuator levels are saved with the EDL.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[UpTilDawn]

The reasoning behind this was that you do not want these trims always active for the next day's session and the next... etc, because they would be ganging up on themselves... the trims always reset to zero because they are something that are designed to be used on the fly, to compensate for one weak or strong signal in a current session. As I said, you should always be controlling the record level from hardware mic pre trims as a default... and these trims will always be different, pretty much for each new performance and new instrument or vocal...

The record trim adjustments are there for very special use and should always be reset to zero when finished with that specific recording, in my opinion.

Another thing is you cannot see all these trim settings at one time and they would get very out of control very quickly if they were constantly built up on over days and days of recording without reset.

They also math the signal up or down, and as such are not the best way to acheive good signal to noise... adjust the signal gain at the hardware to bring the signal into perspective.

And regardless of their setting during recording, they have no bearing on the playback mix after that, so when you open your session tomorrow, the playback will be the same as it was... regardless of the record trim settings today.

Bob L
I agree with your statements and I'm not inclined to need it to be different. It would simply be a covenience in my case.

If the idea were put to use, it would obviously have to be able to clear the current settings when opening the new record template, then it would also make sense to have a default template to be called up just like any other that had everything set as it is now. There would be no buildup then. A view to see all trim settings would not be necessary, but I could see it being a feature request....... and we all know where that would lead....;)

[DBenkert]

Just re-visiting with a couple ideas now that I have used this a few times and understand things a little better. A "no" to all of these is fine, but I just wouldn't feel right if I didn't at least ask :)

2 Enhancement requests to the Record meters:
- Peak Level Hold in the Record Meters like on the Meters for the MT (Infinite option I think) - I know there is an OVER indicator, but there are many times where I need to set something up beforehand and then go play and then come back. This would help in seeing where things peaked and then I could make educated adjustments accordingly. The current way is to record whatever I am doing, and then look at/playback each track to find rough peaks.

- Can there be a way to show the Input Adjust level just under the word Input or somewhere (I know there is no room right now, but maybe that could be expanded a tad?)

The last request is to have some option to save the Input adjustments with the Record meters (or a key combo like Ctrl-Shift click to save/recall with the template.) I TOTALLY understand the rationale described above and that makes sense for most situations I would think. In my situation, I am fed 2 ADAT outs from the board that go to my digiface and then an 8XLR snake to an ADA-8000 to my Digiface. For these last 8 channels, I use the Behringer to boost when needed. However, the feeds I am getting through the ADAT are already "maxed" when they come to me and I still need to boot some of them. I do this almost weekly so it would be nice to have a "template" of some sort to be able to just recall. Currently, I write down what I had the last week and re-instate that. No big deal real, but, like I said above, I have to ask.

Thanks!

[Bob L]

You can use the peak hold options in the Mixer menu now and the record meters will follow thos settings. So you can set the pekhold to infinite and walk away from the recording if you like and still see what were the highest peaks during the recording process.

The other ideas I will place on the todo list.

Bob L

[DBenkert]

Super - thanks!

[Cary B. Cornett]

You can use the peak hold options in the Mixer menu now and the record meters will follow thos settings. So you can set the pekhold to infinite and walk away from the recording if you like and still see what were the highest peaks during the recording process. That is good to know, but what I have intended to request for a while is a latching numerical "headroom remaining" readout as was available on the old SAW meter plugin (IIRC) or like what I am used to on the IXL meters I usually throw across the master output. The would be REALLY handy when I try to set levels before recording a concert. For example, I could go bang on the piano on stage, then come back to my DAW screen and see EXACTLY how much headroom I had left to tell me if further adjustment is necessary. Currently I have to have someone else watch and tell me where the level is, shouting across stage or whatever.

[Bob L]

You have that now... set the peakhold to infinite... go bang on the piano... come back and look at the peakhold indicators... the readout is exactly accurate on the meter db scale... very easy to see how many db of headroom you have or don't have left.

Bob L