To all who love tape compression : the new update is a big time saver

[Arno Jordan]

I am absolutely amazed about all the new and enhanced stuff in the 3.9 update to saw. But one thing really catched me :
I had been thinking for a while that it might be a good thing to be able to use my good old studer tape machine to get some nice tape compression before finally digitalizing the signal.
Thanks to the new Record LoopBackLatency-adjust feature it is now possible to put the tape machine into record-reproduce mode ( where it plays back what has just been recorded ) and srp-record the tape signal with automatic delay compensation.
Thanks Mr. Lentini, i´ve asked for this feature some time ago and even if you seemed not so impressed i am glad to find this feature now implemented.
The extract session feature is another big time saver for somebody involved in live recordings. All i can say is that i am totally happy to be able to use the work of somebody who is still active in business with his own product.

Great Job, Bob !

[Bob L]

Glad you found some use for this feature.

Have fun with all of it.

Bob L

[tomasino]

Sounds very cool.

Arno, I just want to be clear on this.

Essentially, this new feature is allowing you to use the Studor as an outboard effect - to gain some warmth - when you 'mix to new soundfile - si o no?

I've read this has been a feature of another recording system (initials P.T.).

N' I'm wondering if we can't get some VST plugin 'impulses' to achieve the effect? I'm a novice to 'impulses' so maybe a crazy thought - I dunno...

[AudioAstronomer]

Impulses wont work for a lot of reasons...

Saw has had similiar functionality during mix with outboard equipment.... This feature lets you take advantage of outboard gear while tracking using the outboard as an insert through your adda but maintaining sync. It's actually pretty darn cool

[tomasino]

K' so it sounds like there's at least 2 ways to achieve the effect (as long as you have a Studer in the room). SawStudio flexibility is a very good thing.

You know I'm thinking about software driven Tape Machine emulation, n' I was wondering if this could bring us one step closer .

[Naturally Digital]

You know I'm thinking about software driven Tape Machine emulation, n' I was wondering if this could bring us one step closer .Yamaha has released an interesting tape machine emulation plugin for their v2 series mixers (01V96, DM1000, 02R96 etc.)

Dave.

[Arno Jordan]

I love purist approaches, it is important for me to do only one ad/conversion if possible. Prior to this new saw feature it had been possible to use the tape machine as an outboard effect, but what makes it realy shine is to use it to "compress" the signal directly after a good mic preamp before feeding it into the ad/converter. After the signal is once in the digital domain it has already lost some of its original resolution and perhaps some of its dynamic range, and there is another extra da/ad conversion involved if you´re going to use it as an outboard "effect".
Tomasino :
I would be interested to help building an impulse response as i am amazed after trying SIR and the Lex960 reverb impulses. But as i tried to explain the desired effect of using a tape machine is not only a sound colorization ( like adding some nice harmonic distortion ) but also how tape handles this in dependance to the transients and the dynamics of an analog signal.
If you have the chance to compare some tape emulation plugins with a real reel2reel machine used the way i´ve suggested give it a try, it may surprise you.

;)

[Jesse Skeens]

Arno,

Can you explain to me how this new feature lets you work differently?
I have a tape machine myself and if this lets me use it with less hassle
then i'd like to know. If you can give me a step by step guide to what you are doing.

I thought this loopback compensator just adjusted for the converter latency, which is something the JMS latency converter could do.

Jesse

[Jesse Skeens]

Impulses wont work for a lot of reasons...

Saw has had similiar functionality during mix with outboard equipment.... This feature lets you take advantage of outboard gear while tracking using the outboard as an insert through your adda but maintaining sync. It's actually pretty darn cool

If you used it as an insert doesnt that mean its taking an extra trip through your converters?

[Arno Jordan]

Arno,

Can you explain to me how this new feature lets you work differently?

I have a tape machine myself and if this lets me use it with less hassle
then i'd like to know. If you can give me a step by step guide to what you are doing.

I thought this loopback compensator just adjusted for the converter latency, which is something the JMS latency converter could do.

Jesse

If i have a session and for example like to add a guitar track with some tape compression before it gets digitized i´ll do it this way :
i start the session in SAW with the guitar track in recording mode using srp-record. The guitarist hears the mix and plays his part through a guitar amp -> microphone -> preamp -> tape machine -> ad-converter into SAW.
The tape is basically running during the recording session and records the guitar signal and imediately plays it back again. This signal is then used to feed the ad-converter. Simply routing the signal through the tape machine i would end up having a delayed guitar track, because the tape (in record-reproduce mode ) records the signal and plays it back with a slight delay that is caused by the distance between the record and the playback head.
The new SAW feature helps compensating this "delay" so the recorded track is perfectly in sync after the take.

Hope this helps,

Arno

[Bob L]

That's not the way it was intended to be used... but whatever works. :)

To do what you are doing, I would probably just drag the newly recorded track back into position.


Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Yeah, Jesse and I were discussing it last night... very odd, but a great idea!

[Jesse Skeens]

That explains it Arno, thanks.

Out of curiosity what is your delay setting? I have an Otari MX70 and I'm wondering what the delay is on that (I know its different from yours of course).

Bob: What is the easiest way to offset a region back in time when you know the exact sample distance? Do you just have to manually drag it and take notice of the timeline?

Jesse

[Bob L]

You can drag it and line it up to another transient visually... or to go exact distances... you can simply mark the front of the region you are trying to move back as the Mark End with the E key, then keep sliding the cursor backward and hitting the B key... watch the Marked area readout display with the timeline set to samples mode... zoom in and you can step back one pixel at a time extending the mark to an exact number of samples.... then Select Mode, select the region and hit the Backspace key... the region will snap back the number of samples.

All in all, in most cases I would just grab it and slide it into position.

Bob L

[Mountain Media]

You can drag it and line it up to another transient visually... or to go exact distances... you can simply mark the front of the region you are trying to move back as the Mark End with the E key, then keep sliding the cursor backward and hitting the B key... watch the Marked area readout display with the timeline set to samples mode... zoom in and you can step back one pixel at a time extending the mark to an exact number of samples.... then Select Mode, select the region and hit the Backspace key... the region will snap back the number of samples.

Bob LThis, probably, ought'a go into Tips and Techniques!! A new way, to me, of doing something I spent somewhat more time doing, for those few times you want it 'spot-on'!! :o

[Arno Jordan]

That's not the way it was intended to be used... but whatever works. :)

To do what you are doing, I would probably just drag the newly recorded track back into position.


Bob L

Ever did that in a recording session ? after each take or overdub ?
you must be working with truly professional musicians ... ;)

Arno

[Bob L]

Nope... but then again, I don't find myself sending signals through tape decks anymore either... I for one am glad to be rid of tape hiss. :)

Bob L

[Jesse Skeens]

Thanks for the tip Bob. The more I explore SAW the more I feel the need to go back and read the manual over again to pick up things that I didn't find relevant at the time.

Jesse