OT: New Headphones - Tired of the "Japanese" sound

[IraSeigel]

I'm looking for a different set of cans for live and studio monitoring. I've used the MDR-V6 for years and just got a set of the 7506 (both from Sony). Then I listened to a pair of Beyer 770s the other day and was struck by how much more brittle the Sonys are, with their exaggerated high end.

So I'd like some recommendations (again) on headphones please. Specific model numbers would help.

Thanks very much.
Ira

[sstillwell]

I gotta say that I really like my DT770 Pro/80...super comfortable and way extended low end. I don't think I'm comfortable doing a mix on them with no other check, but they're way more than good enough for getting everything roughed in without going overboard on LF content (a real problem I had with the 7506s)

From everything I've heard, there is a significant difference in LF response between the 80-ohm version and the higher-impedance version of the DT770...be sure which one you're listening to / buying.

Scott

[IraSeigel]

Interesting that you mention the Beyers. The thing that got me noticing the exaggerated response of the Sonys was listening to a pair of DT770s that a musician brought into my control room the other day. MUCH smoother on the high end, very comfortable to wear, too. Can they get loud? Do you get enough isolation in a noisy environment (concert)?

Thanks for your info.

[demodoc]

Yes, the V-6's and 7506's are brutal, aren't they? I knoq many her use them and like them and I say, if they give you what you need, then by all means keep using them. I just cannot listen to them anymore, myself.

I currently use a couple different sets of headphones. One is the Sony MDR-V700 . Now these are definitely colrated in their own way...the opposite of the V-6 and 7506. They are a bit on the warm side and soft on the top. Once you get used to them (as you must with any monitors of any kind) they are very easy on the ears. Rather than pushing me away with all that upper mid and high end energy, I find they allow me to listen into the mix much better, and for longer. Mid way bewtween these and the V-6 and 7506 are my Audio Technica ATH m30's. Not the most comfortable I've used over the long haul, but I have found that they translate well to the outside world.

I also like the GRADO line. I've tried their low end ones, the SR-60's and was impressed for the cost.

I also had a pair of the Beyers you mentioned. VERY GOOD!!

Bottom line, to me, is that you should use whatever works for you. I start with the premise that ALL speakers, headphones and, yes, microphones LIE to some extent. The trick, many times, is to find the one that lies the prettiest or in the most useful way. Since I believe that everyone hears differently, then it would follow that no one pair of headphones would work for everybody. You are obviously, more like me and need something that doesn't scream at you so much to make good mix judgements. I'm sure you will find just the right ones if you try out a number of them with some music you are extremely familiar with.


Good luck and please keep us posted as to what you finally end up with. I know I'd like to know.:)

[demodoc]

Soory for the TYPOS...I should check before I post...:eek:

[demodoc]

That's SORRY, not Soory.....geez:(

[IraSeigel]

Soory for the TYPOS...I should check before I post...:eek:

No probem. I figgered it out. Thunks!

[TotalSonic]

The Beyer DT line is definitely non-fatiguing and very comfortable to wear for extended periods as well. They kind of have a smiley face shape to their frequency response with extended slightly heavy lows, slightly attenuated mids, and a good bit of "air" on top. fwiw - the 880's spec as the flattest response - the 990's I have are a bit overhyped on the bottom.

If you're looking for the opposite kind of response of more accurate and highly detailed mids the more top end of the Ultrasone line is very well worth checking out (although to some people's ear these can sometimes sound a little boxy and honky). I have the 650's and they are nice cans to use for tracking that can work ok for some mixing chores as well.

The Sennheisser 600 & 650's are somewhat expensive but are pretty darn accurate and well worth auditioning. If you have some major bank to put into this then Grado's are definitely worth checking out as well. I've been thinking of getting one of these soon - just haven't decided which one.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Fat Cat Music]

Hello,
I have spent many hours under the headband of AKG 240m's over the years.
accurate and little listening fatigue.

My home listening headphones are a set of Stax Earspeakers that I would not give up for the world.

DRBurroughs

[TotalSonic]

Hello,
I have spent many hours under the headband of AKG 240m's over the years.
accurate and little listening fatigue.

My warning with these ubiquitous phones is that they fall apart relatively easily (I remember at the first studio I worked at one of my main jobs was piecing these things back together) and that at 600 ohms they are much harder to drive than many other models.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[IraSeigel]

... If you have some major bank to put into this then Grado's are definitely worth checking out as well. I've been thinking of getting one of these soon - just haven't decided which one.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Steve,
I don't know if you've heard of this source:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl

My brother is an audiophile dealer in the Denver area, and he uses these guys a lot. You might be interested.

The Sennheisers -used- are more affordable here, so maybe I'll finally be able to try them. I, too, have heard good things about them, but even dealer's cost (I work with a dealer) is too high for me.

Thanks,
Ira

[TotalSonic]

Steve,
I don't know if you've heard of this source:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl

My brother is an audiophile dealer in the Denver area, and he uses these guys a lot. You might be interested.

The Sennheisers -used- are more affordable here, so maybe I'll finally be able to try them. I, too, have heard good things about them, but even dealer's cost (I work with a dealer) is too high for me.

Thanks,
Ira

Thanks for the link Ira - but I've used Audiogon lots in the past - it's where I scored both my B&W Nautilus 802's and my Pass Labs X250 for about half price of new retail. The great part of that site is it lets you search by zipcode so that you can find stuff in your own area so you can usually actually demo these high ticket items before purchase.

Anyway - high end headphones, as the drivers are indeed susceptible to wear, are one of those things I'd rather spend the extra hundred or so to get new (and with a warranty), since they really aren't that big ticket items compared to a lot of other studio expenses - although admittedly the high end Grado's at around a the g mark aren't something I would go out and get casually. For a price like that though to me it's more about taking the time to really do some demoing prior to purchase to make sure that what you get is really what you want to use for the next 10 years or so. The Ultrasone 650's and the Beyer DT990's that I have both have strong and weak points - but I've still yet to get that "one magic pair." The Beyers are definitely super comfy though - nice to have for when QC'ing masters at the end of a long day. Still, after working with $300 range headphones for a while I might take a step up sometime this year.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Carl G.]

Hello,
I have spent many hours under the headband of AKG 240m's over the years.
accurate and little listening fatigue.

My home listening headphones are a set of Stax Earspeakers that I would not give up for the world.

DRBurroughs

I have several pair I don't use any longer.
I was missing too many low freq thumps, etc with these phones.
After more client complaints I switched to the MDR-V-6's
Their not as consistent (from pair to pair) as the AKG's... but the mix still translates very well to a larger speakers.

[Bill Park]

I've been using the Beyers since the 80s. If you can't step up to the plate for the Stax, I think that the Germans have you covered.

Bill

[TotalSonic]

I've been using the Beyers since the 80s. If you can't step up to the plate for the Stax, I think that the Germans have you covered.

Bill

A nice article showing test comparisons on the responses of the Beyer DT770, 880 & 990 (along with the Sennheiser HD600) that makes for a good read if you are contemplating getting one of these is at http://www.headphonesguru.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page23.html

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Tim Miskimon]

I, like many here have been using the Sony V-6s for about 15 years.
I think they are great for overdubbing but for more detailed listening I prefer Grados.
I have a pair of Grado SR 225 that I love.
The mid-range is real natural and the top end isn't brittle like the Sony headphones tend to be.
The imaging on the Grados is great.
I mix through a pair of PMC studio monitors and when I put on the Grados the sound is very close to what I'm hearing through the control room speakers.
To me that's very important.

I've never really liked the sound of Japanese speakers (Yamaha NS 10 make me puke) but I do like the Sony V-6s for tracking vocals & acoustic guitars.
I think the extra brightness excites me while I'm tracking.

[Perry]

The Fostex T20RP MKII's sound (and fit) comfortable to my ears... but the ear cushion keeps coming off one side of mine. Other than that I like them.

I have a pair of Beyer DT 770 ML's.. good isolation for drummers and whatever.. err... 'whoever' that is.

I like those too.

And the Audio Technica ATH M-40's and D40's have been workhorses for me... though after many years they're showing their age and it seems to me the sound quality isn't what it once was... starting to sound a bit 'tinny' or something.

But... I personally stay out of the headphones as much as possible.. because in the end I don't really like any of them for listening.. so, it's a matter of the lesser 'evil'. My favorites are still my AKG K-1000's.. but they're not 'really' headphones when compared to these others... more of actual small speakers hanging out near your ears on a really wild looking red frame....plus they're super expensive. I consider them to have been an excellent investment though in the long run and I get lots of use out of them. They sound like speakers more than 'headphones' really. The ultimate 'nearfields' maybe.

Main thing for clients is that THEY like the headphones they're using and they don't break easily. (the headphones.. not the clients)

The Beyer's I mentioned are super for drummers during tracking and/or loud environments for monitoring for myself. I wouldn't want to be without those for when I need them. And I get cue mixes for drummers waaaaay easier with these.

I have a pair of Sony MDR-7506's as well.. I used to really like those actually, even if they are considered bright by many people, but haven't listened to them in a long time. I had two pairs but a guitar player blew up a set one day in the room with his (loud!) amp and turning the phones up louder and louder. I still remember that. He suddenly hollered out, "Can you get me another pair of phones? These are broken!".. as he yanked them off and threw them on the floor.

And that's how it goes with headphones.

Cheers,

perry

[Perry]

....... but I do like the Sony V-6s for tracking vocals & acoustic guitars. I think the extra brightness excites me while I'm tracking.

:eek: Oooooh.. I gotta get me a pair of those!!! :D :)

[IraSeigel]

:eek: Oooooh.. I gotta get me a pair of those!!! :D :)

I've been using the V-6s for about 15 years, too. The thrill is gone. Unfortunately, I'm not getting excited anymore. More like irritated:( .

But that's the story of my life at this point:( :(

:)

[Tim Miskimon]

:eek: Oooooh.. I gotta get me a pair of those!!! :D :)

Wise Guy!...:D :) :)

You can tell your getting old when headphones excite ya...:eek:
Actually I guess I used the wrong words as usual...:)

[IraSeigel]

Wise Guy!...:D :) :)

You can tell your getting old when headphones excite ya...:eek:
Actually I guess I used the wrong words as usual...:)

Perhaps. But your spelling is impeccable.;)
Ira

[Fat Cat Music]

Hey Carl,

If you mean you have a bunch of Stax laying around you aren't using I would do you a favor and take them off your hands...:) but...
I guess you must mean you have a bunch of the AKG's laying around you are not using.

Oh well

Actually, I tried a set of recent K240m's and did not like them as much as my older set. The frequency response on the new set was definitely not as smooth or extended. A quick test with my B&K and frequency analyser proved my ears correct. I believe they are using a different magnet material now and the voice coil is not edge wound anymore:(

The K240S series sounds closer to my older set. Progress:eek: (if you can call marketing progress) must have struck again.

Even so, I would still recommend listening/trying a current set of AKG's because I get less listening fatigue with the AKG's than other headphones.

For client headphones I have been using Sennheisers or Audio-Technicas - smooth vs. loud - depending on the client.

I spend a lot of time using headphones and the AKG's just give me less listening fatigue - sit on my head and ears better as well.

Everybody is different so the best thin g for anyone to do is to listen to headphones before you buy them. I do think you need to listen for at least an hour or more to any set you are trying so you can really get a sense of the point at which listening fatigue sets in - apparent audio traffic jam in the upper mid-range and the feeling of being fidgity and impatient are symptoms.

I would probably like the Beyers more if they felt more comfortable on my ears.

Have fun
DRBurroughs

[Tim Miskimon]

Perhaps. But your spelling is impeccable.;)
Ira

Yeah, I won a lot of spelling Bs in elementary school but I gave that all up to be a rock musician....:D