Hypercanvas

[matt]

I finally emailed Edirol again asking:
" Could sombody give me specific instructions on how to send a sysex message to hypercanvas so that I may be able to save the master tune at A=432. "

Answer:

There are multiple ways to save this information into your project.

-The first way is to use VST automation to adjust the value of the Master Tune setting. This can be done by right clicking on the Master Tune knob, picking a controller, and then using the automation feature in your sequencer to adjust the value.
-The second way is more universal. You must change the Automation setting (to HyperCanvas Main Window, System Button, Option Button, Options Tab) to MIDI, then right click on the Master Tune knob and pick a control change number. Then, you can use a MIDI controller or virtual control change message (standard and easy to program in most sequencers) to control the Master Tune feature.
-One additional way to save this information is to save and load a Performance Data file (same window as Automation option).

According to this info, it is up to MIDIWorkshop to send a command. How do I do this?

[Yura]

Matt,

I dont understand what is the problem with default starting master-tune setting.

since you must save each Performance File of Hypercanvas accordingly to each new SAW session as a .gmf file, you can save everything in it including the master tuning. ???
So I mean, more simple way is the 3-d .

Just click on the words "Hyper Canvas" located in the upper right of the Mixer window.
From the menu that appears, choose Save Performance.
A dialog box will appear, allowing you to save the performance.
Input the save destination and filename, and click [OK].

Y.O.

[SoundSuite]

Does SSB have the Control Track?

If I'm reading that right, Edirol wants you to make Hypercanvas change it's settings via MIDI, which makes sense.

The Control Track and MWS can both in short, send MIDI messages.

View>Control Track>
Click on "Built-In Cmds"
The popup will show multiple commands ready to go.
I am assuming that this would do it for you, assuming you follow #2, note you MIDI number to send, and plunking it into the Control Track at the beginning of timeline.

GL, and worth a try.

[Bob L]

I ran this test... right-clicked the Master Tune knob and set the controller to 119 and Midi Chan 1.

Then went to a track in the MWS assigned to Midi Chan 1 and the HyperCanvas Virtual Port... turned on the MWS Display button... then the Filter and picked Controller 119. Now I could right-click the Display button and select the Pencil Draw mode for the current Controller (119).

Place the pencil near the track beginning and adjust it up or down to a value and click... it writes in a Controller 119 value... you can later place the cursor just beyond the controller display and then simply click in the Value zone and set it to a new value or adjust the purple data slider.

Then by simply placing the cursor just past the controller entry on the track and activating live mode, the controllers will chase and send the data to HCanvas... I watched the Master Tune knob change...

Here's the rub.... with the value set to zero, the Master Tune only drops to 433.6... I can't see a way to get it lower... perhaps one of the other controllers that are labeled as MSB data would give a coarser adjustment... you may want to try that... and/or ask HCanvas support about this range...

So, the idea works... you could place the top track in your MWS sessions with this controller data... everytime you start playback, the Master Tune will adjust... but can you get it to go down to 432?

Bob L

[matt]

Bob, thanks for the directions... unfortunately the result just isn't low enough. I wonder if this is a weak point of VST. With the Direct-X version, SAW remembers all the settings including Master Tune without the need for MIDI messages.

[Bob L]

This is not about VST and DX... it is about HCanvas not adding the Master Tune and other controls into their saved data.

This is strictly a programming issue... simply modify the code to include these other settings when the VST session data is asked for by the host app.

They do save these settings when you do the performance save... but that is outside the host app's control... which is not very effective, because then you have to load these performance files separately for each instance of the plugin everytime you open a session.

Possibly the real problem you see here is that the actual programmers for HCanvas are probably not reachable anymore... this is back to the fact that these products, in many cases, appear to be programmed by people just collecting a paycheck... not because this product is their labor of love... many programmers are probably involved in a team effort and no one of them can make the simple decision to change the code, because they have no real authority to do so, over the money people who are really in charge.

The code change would probably take all of a half hour... but oh well.

Bob L

[matt]

Bob, That makes a whole lot of sense. Well again, thanks for not being money driven. That's what sets your work/art apart from the others. Are the Direct-X virtual instruments really not worth incorperating though? I don't use enough synths to know either way.

[Bob L]

Not for me, if I don't have to... DX is a nightmare to program... I have my hands full with the DirectShow Video stuff...

The VST is bad, in my opinion, but nothing compared to the DX protocol.

Then again, I'm used to assembly language... virtually any high level language is pretty laughable and extremely overly convoluted in comparison, from my perspective. :)

Bob L

[Mountain Media]

Then again, I'm used to assembly language... virtually any high level language is pretty laughable and extremely overly convoluted in comparison, from my perspective. :)

Bob LAmen!! - You ole' 'bit-twiddler', you!!:D

[mghtx]

Bob, could you recommend any books or websites that teaches assembly language?

I've always wanted to learn programming and because of SAW I would like to look into assembly. I've found many sites about it already but wanted to "hear" from the master. :) Thanks.

[Bob L]

To be honest, I taught myself years ago... my original books are very outdated now... I have not looked for current books, so I am not even sure what exists.

I guess the best way to find any would be an internet search... I bet there are online internet training guides also.

Although, to be honest, whenever I see assembly language example code... its also pretty messy compared to the way I program... I guess I just developed my own style over the years that I'm very comfortable with... most other programmers always seem to feel my code style is not 'correct'... oh well... I'll take my 'not correct' results anyday over how the industry 'correct' code installs and performs on my machines. :)

Bob L

[mghtx]

You're a real radical dude ain't ya. :D

Any way you could explain "real messy"? Do you mean unnecessary steps? I know I've got a long road ahead of me to learn this stuff.

As I said I've found many sites about it. There seems to be different ways to code in assembly, so I quess I just need to dive in.

[AudioAstronomer]

Id recommend learning C++ first then moving to assembly. Once you get into assembly, turning around and getting into other languages can be really tough! I started with asm, then went into C which was weird. Then into c++ which still kills me sometimes. When you get into procedural you never want to go back! And you WILL need to learn C or C++ to do any useful programming in the world these days

I must also say the "right" way to do things is generally a concern of readibility, not speed. Once you get into code optimization and the like, fast code is usually very ugly code. One of the things you'll hear most in the quest for fast code is "Oh jsut do it 'right', it doesnt make THAT much of a difference." Bleh. Im in this game for speed, this aint word processing :)

I can suggest 2 books as well

Assembly Language for Intel-Based Computers

and

The Art of Assembly Language by Randall Hyde*


*Be careful with "high-level" assembly. It's a method used to make assembly more readable, but slightly less efficient. This book explains some great concepts, but dont follow it's code too much :)


Once you learn the basic keywords and whatnot, the rest is learning problem solving concepts :)

If you have any questions, you can email me as well. If you dont have anything against the slowness of their website. Intel has ALL the information you will ever need, including an extremely fast compiler c/c++ compiler that produces some of the fastest stuff Ive ever seen. It's not as functional as msvc but I could see asm becoming obsolete if everyone followed intel's steps. Assuming you work in an intelligent manner it produces extremely fast code.

[Bob L]

I guess I still disagree with this thought process... Robert is right... if you want to be hired for a programming job, you will most likely need to learn C++ and more these days.... and don't tell the boss you know assembly language... it may scare them off from hiring you. :)

But if you want to write code like SAWStudio... I would suggest you stay as far away from understanding C++ as possible... it will only serve to drag you down further and further into the mud... and instantly grow your code into huge overblown giant horror stories.... :D

The facts are... learning as many languages and techniques as you can is always helpful... but I have found that learning C++ as a start, will probably lock you into the belief system that that is the only way to program, from that point on.... it is like a drug... a badly addictive drug... C++ will hype you into believing that programming can be so easy... just use all these established libraries... and just write this big program with a few lines of code... BULLLLLLLLLL... look at the size of littlle utility programs these days written in C++... oh yes... from the programmer's perspective... a few lines of code... from the finished compiled code perspective... megabytes of overbloated code.... and slowwwwwwwwwwww...

Just my two cents... truly... don't listen to me... my concepts will never match the industry accepted way to do things...

All I can say is... THANK GOD FOR THAT!... Or we wouldn't have SAWStudio right now. :D

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Oh goodness no, dont start using dev libraries!

NO! dont even think I even came close to insinuating that. My goodness ugh.

just learn c++ syntax :) I cant say how much I completely abhor development libraries these days... Im using one now for a project, and it's a pain in the @$$.

And dont fall for the "c++ is the best" hype, cause it aint. It's even considered a dead language on all fronts... except the die-hards. MS has c#, linux likes C, mac tryign to hang on tough to C++. But you will always have assembly on ms/linux and no matter who calls it a "dead language" uses it everyday if they're worth an ounce of dirt fr any realtime apps.

I Agree with everything Bob said.. but if you avoid the c++ elitism and ultra-modularity, I think it offers the best introduction and concepts as well as a container for asm.

[Naturally Digital]

But if you want to write code like SAWStudio... I would suggest you stay as far away from understanding C++ as possible... it will only serve to drag you down further and further into the mud... and instantly grow your code into huge overblown giant horror stories.... :D

The facts are... learning as many languages and techniques as you can is always helpful... but I have found that learning C++ as a start, will probably lock you into the belief system that that is the only way to program, from that point on....Although a little OT I suppose, this is making for quite an interesting thread. Thanks guys.:)

Bob, if one were to heed your advice then I'm just wondering... what *do* you recommend as a companion to learning assember? Let's say... for someone who would like to code their own plugins for SAWStudio? ;)

Is it 'possible' to code entirely in ASM and integrate into the wonderful world of windows or, as Robert mentioned, do you need a 'container' for your ASM routines?

Or... are your comments more about the order in which one should study these topics?

Dave.

[AudioAstronomer]

Making plugins is generally 1% programming and 99% dsp(math).

just as a note :) The programming is the easy part.

[mghtx]

Thanks Robert, I found both of those books on the web.

I know C and C++ seems like "the thing to do" in the programming world but I'm not interested too much in that. This is just a personal interest for me. I've wanted to learn some type of programming for some time, just as a hobby. And Saw really peaked my interest in assembly. Not that I would do a music program....I don't know if I even could. I wouldn't know where to start.

Thanks for the warning on "high level" assembly. I read on some sites about that. If I come up with any questions I may email you.

You know, I started to teach myself C++ about a year ago and...I don't know why....I just lost an interest in it. I saw how others were using these blocks of code (dev libraries?) and then linking them with other code. It didn't make sense to me...how could a generic block of code be used in different types of programs? Shouldn't each program have specially tailored code? At least for the most part. Anyway....

Saw really impressed me with how "small" it is, in terms of mb's. And it's so powerful and efficient. Bob, you are right about so many of these programs that are full of bloat (full of ....).

Anyway, thanks all. Now back to music.

[Bob L]

I use straight C as a shell and hook the assembly into it... if you download my API you will see how simple and straightforward the C code shell is done... and the assembly is hooked in inside the Processing routine that does the actual realtime algorithm...

That example would be a very simple way for anyone to code a SAWStudio plugin... in fact I have seen many people just change some of the bitmaps and plug in their own algorithms and pretty much use the sample as the basis for their own plugin.

Bob L