Soft-Edge Tips

[AudioAstronomer]

I have recently become a great fan of softedge in sawstudio and the ability to amazingthings with it. What are some of you guys tips for creative uses, quick usees and ways to control it better?

Also, Is there a quick way to change the position at which 2 entries are spliced? Say I have a region on track 1 ending its audio data at 1:00. I create a punch-in early for the performer at 0:55. His performance starts at 1:00. What is an easy way to move the position of the splice from 0:55 to 1:00?

And again, is it possible to have an option to have faders react to softedge as they do to automation? It may be fun to turn this on in projects that have many, as mine are starting to, and wow the client. Of course provides precise visual reference for the engineer too :D

[Bob L]

There are some nice options to adjust splice boundaries.

Press the Alt-Key and grab a splice or entry boundary with the mouse and simply drag to the left or right to adjust.

Pressing the Shift-Alt combination when grabbing from the left side of a splice boundary is a fast way to adjust the left side only while pulling or pushing the right boundary to compensate... it's very powerful for adjusting dialog edits in one move.

The Ctl-Alt combination will adjust both sides of the splice while maintaining perfect sync position of both entries... this is the one to use in your example about the punch-in.

You can also use the U-Key update command with these modifiers to snap the adjustments to the cursor position... for instance, set the cursor to a precise alignment point with another track and then press the U-Key... the closest entry boundary will update to the new position... use the Ctrl modifier and both sides of a splice will adjust in the same manner... etc.

Once again I suggest, read the manual from front to back (in contrast to trying to look specific questions up) and you will find these and many more editing and navigating features that can truly shave hours and hours off your production time, as well as possibly take your productions in directions you never thought possible.

Jeanne's tutorials are a great way to find many related navigation or editing commands gathered together in one spot, with excellent graphics to demonstrate how they work... definitely check them out.

AudioAstronomer, you are moving along very quickly and getting into details in less than a week that many longtime users have not explored... good for you... keep it up and you will be a power user in a very short time. :)

Also, one of the best tips I can give you for getting the most out of the SAWStudio environment is to get very comfortable with the F-Key workspaces... if you watch me operate, you will see I am constantly changing workspaces, sometimes every few seconds, while adjusting things... this is where the power really lies... the ability to navigate and view details instantly, when you are comfortable with your workspace views and have set them up without window overlap.

Another powerful tip is to get a mouse with a mousewheel and set it up to the MT zoom option... again, instant zooming in and out to see overviews and then instantly see waveform details... this is also something you will see me doing all the time, zooming and checking for details, then stepping back for an overview and instant jump to a new location... very powerful way to move through a session when editing or setting up mix elements.

Above all... have fun with the process and try to avoid getting buried in specifics of the way you wished things worked... go with the flow of the way they do work and you will have a wonderful experience... I'm sure.:)

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Oh the mousewheel thing is /my/ thing :) I zoom in and out like crazy!

I will try these tips :)


Is there a future option of allowing purchase of a manual? It is very hard for me to read the PDF as you may have noticed by me asking questions that are answered there-in. I have a great amount of trouble at times reading and writing words on a computer screen, on paper I can follow along better and grasp ideas quicker. I asked kinko's for a quote and they wanted 75$ to print it! Im sure perhaps you may have a better ability to print the manual? Even if it is constantly being updated (as it seems to be, which is GREAT!), just to , have it as a reference even if outdated, would be nice. If features are added, I take notes in my manuals anyways.

If its not an idea to become an option, I will simply look for other options to have it printed. It is worth the money to me, I only make the suggestion because it may be worth it to other users (and worth to your pocket as well?)

[Ben Hall]

Yeah, the F-keys are definietly a winner. I have completely changed the defaults becuase I do mostly 24 track orchestral editing.
Interesting that I don't use the scroll for zooming - I use the keypad and +,-. This is probably a carry over from SAWPro and the older products. However, using the scroll for hottrack selection while using the wide view is a great way to quickly change compression and eq across different tracks and keep the feel of how it all works together.

Ben.

[AudioAstronomer]

u-key update with ctrl modifier rocks my world.

That just cut my editing time in HALF!!

Things are so much clearer when you explain them bob! :) I read the manual for the last 20 minutes or so and must have totally passed over this feature. I really wish to hear the tutorials, but realplayer installs with various forms of spyware, and is nearly impossible to fully remove form your computer, so In my stubbornness to maintain very clean computers I wont install it and therefore cant experience it :(

Quicktime also is persistant-ware, very hard to fully uninstall and operates as spyware for apple :( So this also takes away from my ability to eperience the obviously great tutorials available. Ive already learned quite much from the steven lee videos.

I shall still do my best, im continually amazed! Everytime I find something new I just cant wait to find the next amazing thing. Getting work done so fast, so fun and sounding SO good its a dream come true.

[Bob L]

You should be able to print the pdf manual directly from Acrobat Reader...

Or do you not have a printer?

Bob L

[Yura]

:)Here I am of those who have not a printer at all:)

I looked in the demo 3.7...
So much smart improvements about soft-edges! for faster inserting them and more!
(I keep quiet about the other!)
Is not came a time for option to possibility of changing cross-fade level to -3 db?

Y.O.

[AudioAstronomer]

You should be able to print the pdf manual directly from Acrobat Reader...

Or do you not have a printer?

Bob L

No printer. And that would cost even more as I have no use for a printer other than the manual :) We, proudly, do completely handwritten invoices :)

Perhaps it maybe time to move into the age of typographic print, im a few hundred years behind :)

[AudioAstronomer]

On one note, I found out kinko's quoted me wrong. they only want 20$ (!!) to print it. So Im happy now :) And I ure EVERYONE to goto kinkos.com and check out their online services. I just sent them the manual in PDF, set options, paid by secure credit. Will pick it up at the store in an hour (!). Took me 5 minutes. They deliver as well.

Im having a ball with the U and ctrl-U commands. That is genious :) Since I already set-up markers for transitions (punchins normally occur 4-8 bars before that point), I just hit a marker, ctrl-u, X. With grid on and set to tempo mode I can create a perfect crossfade in tempo without even thinking twice.

I really think Im getting the hang of this :) Really do wonder why no other software can do this stuff, its one of those things thats so obvious it seems absurd to not have something similiar

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

One thing I've found extremely useful in teaching new users in SAW products is to have the "Quick Reference Guide" and the "Quick Key Reference" portion of the help manual printed up in largish type.

Also, I like to copy those out to a word document, and select the top 20 or 30 commands, and the top 20 key shortcuts, and have those printed on a single page that can be posted right by the monitor. Over time, you can modify what you put on the cheat-sheet, as you find many of the shortcuts become automatic.

You could also do this without printing by making a large font version of the top 20 idea, and making them into PDF or even just text files that you could keep minimized and pop up when you need the refresher.

Dave Tosti-Lane

[RobertV]

In reference to not wanting to load realplayer "bloat and take over your computerware" there is an alternative!
You can configure Irfanview to play back these type of files, in adition to all the other good things it does! :rolleyes:
Cheers....robert V

[AudioAstronomer]

Irfanview huh? Ill try that...

[Yura]

So, nobody never felt the shortage of -3 dB in crossfade?
it is very srtange.

[Bob L]

Yura,

Try for once letting go of your numbers and calculations and just sit back and listen with your ears... the ride can be much sweeter my freind. :)

The SoftEdge crossfade is mostly designed for blurring splices... crossfades of a few milliseconds to a few hundred millseconds... of course you can do a 10 sec crossfade between two songs also... but then who needs specific measurements or algorithms for that... and if you want more... simply place the critical signals on two tracks and create the most elaborate fade out and fade in you could ever dream up... and then save that in the Automation Gallery and use it 100 times more at the click of the mouse.

The Softedge is set to cross at -6db so that level shifts do not ocurr when using it for what its designed to do... blur dialog edits together to remove breath noises... or smear the splice of two guitar solo takes into a seamless perfect solo... the -6db keeps the transition level consistent.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

Perhaps Yura's idea is applicable for when there is a fade out, followed by a sharp attack on something like drums, where splitting to 2 tracks each is not quite practical?

I like it at -6 for everything Ive tried, but I can see how one may wish to have a more gentle fade if working quickly, or running out of tracks. just my two cents.

[Bob L]

That's when two tracks are needed to truly control specific fade details...

Crossfades can sometimes need complete individual attention... use two tracks and do whatever automation moves you require to get the desired effect.

SoftEdges are just that... edges that blend and blur together... multiple styles just doesn't seem necessary.

Tip: Consider using SoftEdges on all ending regions of a multitrack session that has an ending, instead of a master fade on the main Output Track to fade down the decay to silence... cut each track's end boundary at a slightly different place depending on the instrument type and then use a SoftEdge to ramp the audio down to infinity... with each track decaying and disappearing at a slightly different rate, the result can be very realistic as to the natural decay of real instruments instead of everything decaying mechanically as the master fader is pulled to silence.

Bob L

[Yura]

Intetresting...

Robert and Bob,

actually, there is all absolutely understood what are your remarks about.

But I had not explained exactly what I ment talking about -3 dB before.
indeed, Robert, you not guess what my -3 dB needs was caused of. If I would work on music aplications only, maybe I will not to touch thought of -3 dB too.
it is not strange, but I FELT need of it when I had deal with hundreds of activations of crossfades
in each of 12 sessions.
so, the question remains only what I was crossfaded?
so, here we have solid track of sound of car (or some another engines). and we must
1) cut little area inside this track, 2)then make boundaries butting, 3) make the crossfade on this
buttsplice for bruring result. If you start to experiment on sounds like that, espessialy with
drone-like sounds, you will do the next findings:

1) if you make very short crossfade (about 1 - 100 ms), that may be resulting very fine. but.
in 50 % of your work due to DIFFERENT enouth character of sound on sticked boundaries
(that happens with these types of "noises"!) you will hear the jerk of noise that is malapropos.
and then you need have to carefully search for others of slice-points to prevent it.

2) if you make more long crossfade, you will take result of collapse of level inside crossfade
in 50 % or even more of your work. this collapse is about -3 dB. and it is very corresponds to
well known for you formula about square-law dependency between sound's energy and its volume.
very sorry for incorrect english grammatics in this dufficult area.

what is Very important in this phenomena, hearing of this collapse may very vary due to character
of the sound' spectrum. it is more appreciable in drone sounds having more spectrum energy
in area that is most receptive for an man's ear.
if you will experiment the same with sounds that have very different spectrums, you will notice
no collapse at all. that is exactly with the musical sounds.

so there is no much people may need this option because all of SAWyers are working in music sphere.

if you need some simple practikal proof of what I have said all there, and what your ears hear,
please check next.

get the one track of white or rose noise, 5 seconds about.
mark area about 1 second somwhere in the middle of it.
hit Shift+Del.
make crossfade through buttspliced point about 1 or 2 seconds long.
listen from begining to end.

the next questions is: how to do with it if there a lot of it with very comfort and fast?




I like it at -6 for everything Ive tried, but I can see how one may wish to have a more gentle fade if working quickly, or running out of tracks.

you quite right here, Robert!

Bob, maybe if SS's using area will grow out of only music aplications in the future,
maybe question of -3 dB will be more actual.

Here is my hand to you, friends.

Y.O.

[Bob L]

Yura,

I would say that the 2 sec softedge may be where the problem lies... I do these kinds of cuts and splices all the time and perhaps the softedge should only be a few hundred ms... try a few adjustments and the splice can usually be made to sound perfect and unnoticable.

Also, zooming in and making sure the cut did not flip the phase can help a lot... readjust the cut point to make sure the waveform shape actually continues in the proper plus or minus direction.

In the end, I may be able to come up with a way to allow the center cross point to be adjustable... then you can do what you want... not sure at this time whether that will fit into the current algorithm that controls the softedge easily or not... we'll see.

Bob L

[AudioAstronomer]

I have noticed a problem Im having when using softedge. I think it pertains to my use of it somehow, I read through the manual many times now and even did some searching for solutions to this one but Im finally going to ask.

I have a track with 3 punchins, all one after the other. At the beginning of each new punch, about 500ms before the performance there is a glitch that's caused by the guitarist moving his hand (something weird he does right before starting his performance, and he wont change it!).

If I adjust the region boundaries, and apply a softedge, the glitch is now present! Of course since it is fading in the region before the region visibly starts, this makes sense. It is also fading in portion of the audio that is not part of the region I specified. If I perhaps had multiple punch-in's and a larger soft-edge, I could theoretically even fade-in from a previous performance since all the regions are in the same file!

What are the solutions? All I can figure is:

1. smaller softedge, which sounds unnatural
2. edit the glitch out permanently, but I cant figure out how
3. insert silence between the glitch and the performace to make the glitch away from the softedge.
4. apply a softedge to only fade out the previous region, but not fade in the succeeding region. this sounds unnatural to me as well.

I've also noted that setting my punch-in points more precisely (right on the mark) would eliminate this problem too, but sometimes performers jump the gun and start early, or start late when they here the effect of starting early. So I've been in the habit of starting punch-ins about 1-2 secongs before the point actually begins. Of course it differs on what you're punching in, many times precise points works well. I think Im going to totally rethink how I set this stuff up tonight. for now I need to fix this darn glitch :)

[Bob L]

In most cases I would cut out all sounds that I don't want to hear, and then see if a very short softedge applied to the new region boundaries will solve the noise issue.

Of course this can only work well when there are other tracks of audio to cover up the silence that is left in between the cut regions... in many cases this is the norm.

If you have a solo section with this kind of trouble, then you may have to fill in the gaps with a small section of natural background dead air with the same energy as the rest of the track... in most cases this can be found at the beginnings or ends of the punched areas... make a small region section... copy it into the holes and then stretch the boundaries to fit... a small softedge, like 20 ms or so should smooth it out.

I find that many people feel they have to use 500ms or 1 sec softedges... they are still thinking of them as fades, I guess... do not be afraid to experiment with 10 and 20ms softedges to just smooth the edge of the region cut... these can do wonders for creating that silky smooth sounding performance.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

do not be afraid to experiment with 10 and 20ms softedges to just smooth the edge of the region cut... these can do wonders for creating that silky smooth sounding performance.

Bob L

Man, you ain't kiddin'! :)

I used to average about 1-2 hours of edit time, per song, on drum tracks in Sonar, editing all the crap out of the tom mics. Lots of manual cuts & microfades, with their "slip edit" system.

SawStudio cut that time down to about 5-10 minutes per song. It could get even shorter on my next project as I've been experimenting with the channel gates, which are wonderful, BTW.

Anyway, back on the soft-edge thing. Personally, I think it's one of Saw's strongest features. No pops & clicks, just flowing audio. Makes editing a breeze when combined with the 'select' tool, and punch ins are actually fun again. No pops. Ever.

Great stuff!

-0z-



.

[Bob L]

Just in case you missed it... take a look at the Auto Record Softedge option in the Options Menu... set it up and have every punch-in generate an automatic softedge on both sides of the region.

Bob L

[Oz Nimbus]

Yes, I use the "auto record softedge" on every session. What a great system!

-0z-