RME (2) FF800s - Ambler others?

[DennisC]

Greetings,

I have tried to search and ask on the RME forum with no luck yet. I thought maybe Ambler or some others familiar with the RME products might be able to help.

I am trying to use my two FF800s such that one Totalmix can see all 16 (or 18) of the analog inputs. I am trying to do this my using FF(1) as a standalone AD box and Master clock - connecting it to FF(2) via ADAT1 (at 44.1K) using the Toslink cable.

Before connecting the two together, I connected FF(1) alone to the PC and used TotalMix to route the analog inputs to the ADAT outputs so that they would be input via ADAT to FF(2).

When I connect FF(2) to the PC and FF(1) to FF(2) via ADAT1 - I do get clock to FF(2) but I can not hear the analog inputs I put into FF(1) 7/8 which were supposed to show up via ADAT as inputs 19/20 I think.

Any ideas? Can I do what I am trying to do?

Thanks,
Dennis

[DennisC]

Ok,

I did get one person's input on the RME forum but I am still having problems. Here is where I am:

FF(1) is to serve as stand alone AD.

FF(2) is the FF connected to the PC with FW. FF(1) is connected to FF(2) via ADAT1 and is not connected to the PC.

I made FF(2) the Master clock. I sent WORD clock out of FF(2) via the coax type connection as that is what I had. FF(1) Shows WC sync on its front panel with a green light.

I have my iPod going into FF(1) inputs 7/8. Now they are showing up in FF(2) BUT they are showing up on FF(2) inputs 13/14, 15/16, 17/18 AND 19/20 and every input meter in TotalMix mixer view is showing overs on level.

I think this relates to how I set up routing in FF(1) before disconnecting it from the PC via FW. This routing is so confusing. I thought I simply set the FF(1) inputs to go to there respective ADAT1 outputs A1-A8 But somehow this input 7/8 seems to be getting to every ADAT1 output.

I went back and tried to really force the FF(1) inputs to ONLY their respective ADAT1 outputs. I connected FF(1) to the PC by itself via FW. Open the TotalMix and Matrix views. I clicked off all connections in the Matrix via except sending Inputs 1-8 to A1-A8.

I then saved that FF(1)'s settings to Flash as well as that particular TotalMix setting to preset 8. I turned off FF(1) and the PC.

I re-connected FF(1) to FF(2) via ADAT1. I connected FF(2)'s WC to FF(1)'s WC. I connected FF(2) back to PC via FW.

I input my iPod to FF(1) 7/8. When I open up TotalMix I see eight input channels 13-20 getting the iPod signal and all are gettings overs on the input channel meter in Totalmix.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Dennis

[DennisC]

I resolved the problem but thought I would post it here in case it helps someone else later.

The problem for me was that the FF(1), which is in Stand Alone mode, was not coming back on the way I assumed. I assumed it would come back on in the last state I was in before turning it off. Realize that this is important as I can not edit the mixer's routing (in the final physical configuration) because it is not connected to the PC, it is only connected via ADAT to FF(2).

The key was to:
-) Connect FF(1) to PC for configuration.
-) get the channels routed properly, which I had done, BUT ALSO
-) go to the Options Pulldown at the top of TotalMix and "Flash Current Mixer State" which is what will make it come back on the way it is currently set.

-) then you can turn off and connect FF(1) to FF(2) via ADAT and FF(2) to PC via FW.

I did this and things worked as desired.

I hope it helps someone in the future.

Dennis

[Bob L]

Good detective work... thanks for the info.

Bob L

[DominicPerry]

Dennis,

I don't want to confuse things but............. I will.

Is there any need to disconnect FF(1) from your PC? Even if you are avoiding any inputs coming to the PC, you can use the PC to control the 'scene' and check the routing.

Dominic

[DennisC]

Dominic,

What you suggest may be fine. However, I had problems with both FFs connected. It could have been me just being dense but I really had a hard time understanding which FF was which. RME states that the serial numbers dictate that but I experienced that to not be true. Again, it could be just my inexperience.

This very issue of how confusing two FFs and how confusing Totalmix is, is why I almost sold them both and just went with a designed 16+ input system like the Lynx Aurora 16 or the Mixtreme 192+iBox48.

It would have cost me significant money, and a few days ago Ambler pointed out another option that pushed me into trying to get this (2) FF thing to work. I finally succeeded.

So, thanks to Ambler for the nudge.

Hopefully, not "too much info" Dominic.

Dennis

[UpTilDawn]

Dominic,

What you suggest may be fine. However, I had problems with both FFs connected. It could have been me just being dense but I really had a hard time understanding which FF was which. RME states that the serial numbers dictate that but I experienced that to not be true. Again, it could be just my inexperience.

This very issue of how confusing two FFs and how confusing Totalmix is, is why I almost sold them both and just went with a designed 16+ input system like the Lynx Aurora 16 or the Mixtreme 192+iBox48.

It would have cost me significant money, and a few days ago Ambler pointed out another option that pushed me into trying to get this (2) FF thing to work. I finally succeeded.

So, thanks to Ambler for the nudge.

Hopefully, not "too much info" Dominic.

Dennis

I don't understand why you don't simply use Saw instead of TotalMix Dennis.

I'm guessing (since I use the MultiFace to pci card) you're trying to get to see all your analog inputs on one TotalMix PAGE instead of split between two?
And as you say, it's confusing because, in your case, there's no way to identify which FF is on page one? So, as a solution you're attempting to force all the inputs to one page by sending one set of analog inputs into the 2nd unit via the adat port?

I've wrestled with the need to monitor all my inputs from one MultiFace in much the same way.... But since Saw can be used as a live mixer as well as record now, I gave up trying and just turn down all my TotalMix input levels and monitor through Saw with the "Tape Style- Input Always On" mode.... using Saw's F and Z mixers.

Or is this just for the challenge?

DanT

[ambler]

So, thanks to Ambler for the nudge.

Hey, no problem, glad to help.

Congratulations on working this out Dennis. I didn't see this until now so sorry I was no actual help.

Mark

[DennisC]

Dan,

I guess my answer to your question is three fold:

1) I have avoided using SAW for the monitoring because I didn't want to end up chasing performance/buffer sizes to get low latency monitoring. Also, it's confusing to me as well.

2) With my two FF800s I had previously been resolved to ignoring TotalMix but it bit me a couple of times and I am not convinced you (I) can just ignore it. So, to better deal with it, I was thinking of getting it all on one TotalMix screen.

3) I was going to punt the Totalmix problem and the (2) FF800 challenge simply but going to a 16+ designed solution in the Mixtreme 192 or Aurora16. However, as Ambler pointed out, it would cost me more money and it should be (and was) possible to get the (2) FF800s working on a single TotalMix via the ADAT connection as I have now done. (note: See Ambler, you were of help).

So, I can either:

1) Learn how to get SAW monitoring the way I need it AND make sure I get the performance issues working for near zero latency monitoring, OR

2) Build upon the TotalMix learning investment I have and have now increased with this ADAT connection solution, while keeping the monitoring load and buffer/perf. issues out of the main processing of the DAW.

So, there's where I am for now.

Thanks for all of the feedback. I hope this thread helps someone else. You all have been always helpful to me.


Dennis

[UpTilDawn]

Well, I guess it depends on how you're using it... what the monitoring demand is used for, for instance...


As an example, I can easily allow Saw to work with mme at 4X256 when I'm recording a live, multi-track event (up to 32 channels so far), while sending/monitoring/mixing the tracks at the same time to an outboard device/video/streaming feed, etc. through a single output pair.... latency does not really become an issue in this case because the slight slapback I perceive between phones and source doesn't appear to be a factor for even an audio for video send.

I used to use TotalMix for my mixer, but like you, I find it very confusing. Using Saw as a mixer in this way is WAY easier in my opinion. The only thing I have to do is to remember to turn down the input faders in TotalMix. I have TotalMix open just to observe the levels it registers.

I'm glad you got your setup figured out... Hope it works fine for you. I may even be motivated to try a new setup myself based on your experience to elliminate the need for the line mixer I currently use to sum my multiple pci cards to a single phones out.

DanT

[Cary B. Cornett]

I personally lean to a combination of SAW's live monitoring and Totalmix. I put the Live Mode through its paces on some theater sound jobs I did a while back. I found that the pit musicians became comfortable when I got the buffers down to 2x64. If you are not using latency-causing plugins or plugins that change buffer sizes, live monitoring through SAW works for just about everything EXCEPT cue mixes to vocalists wearing headphones.

For that last case, Totalmix saves the day. When recording vocals, I monitor through Totalmix instead of through SAW. For anything else, I can go either way.