Control Surfaces

[Its Only Rock and Roll]

I was just curious how many SAW users use control surfaces vs a mouse to mix.
Rock

[TotalSonic]

I have a CM Labs Motor Mix that I use and that also has one of the more developed controller templates - i.e. you can use it not only for fades, pans, mutes, and solos but also allows you to control transport controls, aux channels, and SAW's built in console eq's and dynamics, plus it has an lcd display giving you viewable (if very simplified) info. I find I really don't ever use it much in mixing as I can usually just mouse things in quicker and more precisely. What I do like it for is using it when mastering to control the transport and output level of my "playback" DAW when it is not displayed on the monitor screens it shares with my "capture" DAW via KVM.

Anyway - you can sometimes find used CM Motor Mix's for very reasonable cash on ebay and I can definitely recommend them as a "sleeper" value for very full featured controller of SAWStudio if this is what you are interested in.

http://www.cmlabs.net

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[UpTilDawn]

No controller here.

[Craig Allen]

A little of both, but I'm very quick with a mouse. I really only use faders when starting a mix or for live work.

[Bud Johnson]

I got a BCF when I sold my D8b. I don't really use it much to mix though, noisy and I'm comfy with the mouse/ keyboard. It may come in handy live for tweaking vocals and lead instruments, we'll see. If not......ebay!

[Bill Park]

My friend Garry writes software, and he wrote some killer stuff for the CMMotormix, which he owns. I have the Mackie, which is okay I guess, but as I'm doing a lot of remixing, I don't use it much. For a while though, I was quite adept at maneuvering across tracks with it. I just never really got comfortable with the fades.

Bill

[RobertV]

Hi
I've got a Frontier Alphatrack, I found that apart from noisy (linear fader when motor driven and switches) it is quite good, although I am not using it as much as i thought I would!
What really surprised me is that I am using the rotary control in preference to the linear fader as I find it the best way to accurately make small adjustments.
Apart from that, the transport buttons are very handy, but they take quite a bit of pressure to activate.

Cheers...Robert V.

[HapHazzard]

I have a CM Labs Motor Mix that I use and that also has one of the more developed controller templates - i.e. you can use it not only for fades, pans, mutes, and solos but also allows you to control transport controls, aux channels, and SAW's built in console eq's and dynamics, plus it has an lcd display giving you viewable (if very simplified) info. I find I really don't ever use it much in mixing as I can usually just mouse things in quicker and more precisely. What I do like it for is using it when mastering to control the transport and output level of my "playback" DAW when it is not displayed on the monitor screens it shares with my "capture" DAW via KVM.

Anyway - you can sometimes find used CM Motor Mix's for very reasonable cash on ebay and I can definitely recommend them as a "sleeper" value for very full featured controller of SAWStudio if this is what you are interested in.

http://www.cmlabs.net

Best regards,
Steve BersonVery interesting. Have you tried it in SAC or is the template tied into SAW.
Hap

[TotalSonic]

Very interesting. Have you tried it in SAC or is the template tied into SAW.
Hap

I've only used it in SAW - I haven't run FOH sound in years - and when I perform in amplified settings with my string quartet I let others deal with the sound. Anyway - I'd figure that the same template should work in SAC but can't completely confirm this as I haven't tried it yet.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jon R]

I find that I do all of the mixing "in the box" with mouse and keyboard. Like others here, I am working in the Voice-over and commercial realm and not dealing with the heavy track loads of the music guys. I have a Yamaha 01v sitting next to me but only use it to control monitors and make some minor adjustments to mic inputs and headphone mix.

I have been considering getting a Frontier Tranzport to control SAW for the occasions when I am in the booth as talent and not at the keyboard.

Other than that, I find I can get the mix I want right in SAW and then output a file for the client very easily. After all, we're talking commercials here.;)

[Bob L]

And in my opinion, the same goes more so for full on multitrack music mixing.... much more precision, speed and repeatablity keeping the mix in the box... and overall better audio quality (using SAWStudio) with less noise.

Bob L

[Perry]

I use the (no longer sold) Tascam US-2400... 24 channel controller. But I use it to control my Soundscape mixer in conjunction with SAWStudio. When 24 channel support for controllers comes out for SAWStudio I will probably of course give that a shot and see how I like it.

I also had for a while the Mackie Control which I used with SAWStudio... but sold it after a while. It just seemed redundant for SAWStudio for me... Bob has it working so well with the mouse and keyboard. Again though.. with 24 track control available I might change my mind... with long days sometimes it gets tiring using the mouse all the time. It's nice to be able to let go of it and grab some faders at least every once in a while.

In the end though.. I don't know.. SAWStudio works really well without a controller. I do like having a transport though and have been considering picking up something just for that function. I like that the transports work regardless of focus in SAWStudio. That's really the only thing I miss from having a controller for SAWStudio really.

Perry

[Grekim]

90% mice here. There are many times I wish I had the money back I spent (around $1100) on the control surface (purchased way before becoming aware of SAW). If you get a good match between controller and SAW then it's got to be a good situation. If you stop and think about it though, how different are the mechanics between sliding a mouse and sliding a fader? Probably not much. The only obvious advantage is if you are needing to grab two track simultaneously. As far as getting into tweaking effects, a control surface always felt too cumbersome.

There have been a couple times when it's been absolutely indespensible. Namely, doing upright bass parts for a track that was difficult (for the near novice). There's little worse than having to put down the bass, walk back to the control room, stoop over to pick up that beast, and try to find the approximate distance from the mic, yet again, for take #24. So you put the control surface on a table next to you in the tracking room and life is good. And I do prefer a control surface for fade in/outs.

[Tim Miskimon]

I like that the transports work regardless of focus in SAWStudio. That's really the only thing I miss from having a controller for SAWStudio really.

Perry


The Tranzport does a good job with that. Also nice that it's wireless and it doesn't take up a lot of room.
I wish that the Alpha track was wireless -
I almost bought one till I found out it wasn't.

[Perry]

The Tranzport does a good job with that. Also nice that it's wireless and it doesn't take up a lot of room.
I wish that the Alpha track was wireless -
I almost bought one till I found out it wasn't.

Thanks Tim.... yeah... I've been considering one or the other. I like the idea of the Alpha Track but as you point out it isn't wireless. I need to look closer at these and make some sort of decision. I really do miss the transport and I'd like to have that again.

I've been wanting to do some drum tracks and hits (I play drums) and that means going in the other room and the wireless of course would be ideal for that. But otherwise I like the Alpha. I guess we both wish it was wireless. :)

Maybe there's something else? That's what I've been meaning to investigate before making a decision.

Thanks again!
Perry

OH... meant to add: for me the most use of the controller in terms of faders comes during tracking, in the heat of things, and being able to do quick rough mixes and so on.... as far as final tweaks the mouse is very accurate and usually faster... still there are things that you can do with multiple faders that you can't do with a mouse.

Can you do it without a controller... absolutely! It comes down to personal preference I suppose. I do think that whatever increases someone's productivity and 'comfort level' is valid. Whatever works,, do it! :)

[Perry]

The Tranzport does a good job with that. Also nice that it's wireless and it doesn't take up a lot of room.
I wish that the Alpha track was wireless -
I almost bought one till I found out it wasn't.

Well hey... you might be interested in this Tim.... I found this about the Alpha on the Frontier site in their FAQ section:

How far can the AlphaTrack be from the computer?

While it comes with a 6' (1.8 m) cable, you can use any approved USB cable with it. Standard USB cables of up to 16' (5 m) are readily found, and active extension cables can take you even farther.

Than might work for me actually. I'll look further and maybe pick one on for demo.

Perry

[Tim Miskimon]

Well hey... you might be interested in this Tim.... I found this about the Alpha on the Frontier site in their FAQ section:

How far can the AlphaTrack be from the computer?

While it comes with a 6' (1.8 m) cable, you can use any approved USB cable with it. Standard USB cables of up to 16' (5 m) are readily found, and active extension cables can take you even farther.

Than might work for me actually. I'll look further and maybe pick one on for demo.

Perry

Thanks for the info Perry. That might work for me as well.

[Burkeville]

A good friend of mine has a post studio and he bought a new controller surface. I walked in and said "oh look, a giant expensive mouse". That really cheesed him off and I apologized for the remark. For post, it makes sense.

Anyway I went to see him again about three months later and the control surface was gone. He was using a "cintique", a monitor that lets you tap on it like a cursor with your fingers. IT WAS AMAZING HOW FAST HE WAS. I couldn't believe how fast he was working, touching and dragging on the screen.

This may be the way of the future. Still, I am fast enough with a mouse. Sometimes I even use the mousepad if I am working on a laptop.

best,
kb

[Cary B. Cornett]

A good friend of mine has a post studio and he bought a new controller surface.
... I went to see him again about three months later and the control surface was gone. He was using a "cintique", a monitor that lets you tap on it like a cursor with your fingers. IT WAS AMAZING HOW FAST HE WAS. I couldn't believe how fast he was working, touching and dragging on the screen. I got hold of an old Wacom tablet to experiment with, hoping to make sessions work faster. Early experiments were not encouraging. I do not know whether this was because the idea was bad or because I did not devote enough time to getting comfortable with the tablet. The biggest hassle was trying to double-click on anything, where I had the dreaded "can't hit the same spot twice" problem (which is why is use a trackball rather than a mouse). However, since I write left-handed but use the trackball with my right, I suppose I could get used to "splitting the difference". Note: you can't operate both trackball and tablet at the same time, although you can alternate between the two easily (no extra button pushes needed or anything).

[RobertV]

Well hey... you might be interested in this Tim.... I found this about the Alpha on the Frontier site in their FAQ section:

How far can the AlphaTrack be from the computer?

While it comes with a 6' (1.8 m) cable, you can use any approved USB cable with it. Standard USB cables of up to 16' (5 m) are readily found, and active extension cables can take you even farther.

Than might work for me actually. I'll look further and maybe pick one on for demo.

Perry

Perry, I'm using a 5 metre long cable and the first cable I used did not work, only when I changed to one of those shielded USB cables things started to work for me!
Robert V.