Sac - tap delay

[Leadfoot]

Ok, as much as I appreciate the effort towards having a tap feature, I think the way it is implemented, it's more trouble than it's worth.

For one, I don't think the latch left and right is latching when using the tap feature, kinda rendering it useless, unless there's something I'm missing.

And B, the dialog box blocks off the rest of the features while in tap mode, and it's another motion to hit esc to exit, and it kinda steals the focus while it's open, but I think it would need to be open permanently if desired.

Couldn't you just put a button on the gui to double click with the mouse for delay time? Please? That way I could just park the plug somewhere and leave it in view, and just dbl click anytime for delay time change.

Or, what I still think would be great is to have a few global buttons on the main window bar that are assignable to a possibly frequently needed function, like for example, the delay time.

Can any one else try it out and see if you feel the same way about this?

I really need it, but honestly don't think it's usable like this.
Please forgive me if I've greatly overlooked something, I'm just trying to help.

Thanks,
Tony

[Craig Allen]

I don't know if this is part of that feature (as I haven't updated yet), but a keyboard shortcut for the tap tempo would be cool as well (only when it's open, of course). The space bar would be the ideal choice.

[HapHazzard]

Ok, as much as I appreciate the effort towards having a tap feature, I think the way it is implemented, it's more trouble than it's worth.

For one, I don't think the latch left and right is latching when using the tap feature, kinda rendering it useless, unless there's something I'm missing.

And B, the dialog box blocks off the rest of the features while in tap mode, and it's another mouse click to hit esc to exit, and it kinda steals the focus while it's open, but I think it would need to be open permanently if desired.

Couldn't you just put a button on the gui to double click with the mouse for delay time?

Can any one else try it out and see if you feel the same way about this?

I really need it, but honestly don't think it's usable like this.
Please forgive me if I've greatly overlooked something, I'm just trying to help.

Thanks,
TonyI had the same impression at first but with a little practice I got pretty fast at setting to a tempo and getting out of the setup window. I figured I would be pretty focused on the tempo anyway so I move it up to a corner so the board view is clear, do the tap setup, exit then right click over the other side to match (if that is desired) that tempo. Getting faster, soon it will be second nature.
Hap

[Leadfoot]

He's got the left/right arrow keys to enter the delay time now, but you have to first open up the pop up dialog, select the tap feature, then hold down ctrl-left/right arrow to actually tap the time, then hit esc to exit.. correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems, well, too much.

There's a lot to this virtual environment, all of which I really like, but I don't think something so simple as tapping a tempo should add any more confusion or more fiddling around than necessary.

Tony

[IraSeigel]

.... The space bar would be the ideal choice.

I agree

[Bob L]

In my opinion, setting the time by tapping is a one time thing... instead of dialing in a specific time which you don't know... you set it by tapping till you are happy with the delay, then close down the option.

The use of two keys was to allow for very fast taps, like flams, which a single button or key can not do because of the keyboard/mouse reaction time.

And, if you use the Ctrl-Key when selecting the tap mode, then both channels will set... and, you can leave the mode active, live, and tap at any time to change the delay on the fly.

I'm not sure what else it needs to do... :)

Bob L

[Tony Marone]

Hi Bob

I am for the spacebar tap also. I am coming at it from a DJ perspective and all the software I have used lets you tap out the BPM. Also my trusty TC Electronic reverb uses one key to tap in your delay. I understand that the keyboard might not be fast enough for very quick taps using one key, but the 2 key thing is very unnatural feeling. BUT THE DELAY TIME IN FEET ROX!:)

[Trackzilla]

I too initially felt the implementation was too cumbersome. But like many things abt SAC/SAW, when I stopped resisting & tried it, it became good. You must remember that Bob is not a tap junkie like myself and some of the rest of us who have a D-Two grafted into our neck ;) Nonetheless with this set of changes he has rendered his delay module into something that sits in my default mix template.
I agree it is less than perfect to have tap mode lock out the other adjustments, but it is not a massive problem for me.

1st, set your feedback settings before you enter tap mode, for most of us the general use tap delay won't change other parameters much from a preferred setting anyway

2nd, if you need to set both channels together, hit ctrl while clicking to bring up the menu, then it will set tap as active for both channels & you won't be trying to hold ctrl while tapping ;) Leave it in tap mode unless you need to adjust another parameter

3rd, call up a second instance for your more convoluted settings, and think ahead...presets are your friend

Bob's thinking in having separate start & stop buttons rather than a single one does make sense if you want to tap short times more effectively (ever try to enter a falam with the space bar? or worse yet a mouse?) for longer times it doesn't matter much once you get used to it.

the perfect 'Trackzilla Delay Module' would provide:
1: continual tracking of one button using the average of the last 3 taps as the time (that way you can start tapping on the beat & then shift to the tapped division you are after)
2: time division setting (nice for shifting a delay back & forth to double time/triplets/etc instantly)
3: ability to set a discrete number of 'hard repeats' before the feedback feature begins it's fade
4: ability of hard repeat feature to track rhythms & pass those to the feedback module (ala D-Two)
5: image offset setting (add/subtract from one of the two channels' tapped delay time a choice of either a discrete number of milliseconds, or a percentage of the time set by the tap when tap is set to control both channels) this allows ping-pongs, slap-crossed long delays, and stereo ambient delays to be tapped in
6: ability to manually tweak tapped settings without needing to shift modes

BUT...I can get most of that now with a couple of instances of the included tool chained in series, and it now solves my most common uses as it stands, Thanks Bob!

[Bob L]

The spacebar is very limiting... and too slow for my taste...

Also... any one key method lacks in the ability to restart midway... for instance if you try to start tapping on the beat and miss... now you would have to add another tap and then start again... all the while creating a bad delay setting until you come around again...

My two key method allows you to tap and restart again with the left arrow... and restart again, until you decide you have a good start... then finish the calculation with the right arrow... all the while without creating bad delay times in the live chain... much more powerful.

Also... as a drummer, I find that using two fingers or even two hands to tap out the start and end is a very accurate way to accomplish the task... practice the concept for a moment before deciding how wrong it is... just because perhaps you have never seen it done this way before does not mean it is wrong... in fact, you may find it to be much more powerful and accurate than what you are asking for. :)

Bob L

[IraSeigel]

...

Also... as a drummer, I find that using two fingers or even two hands to tap out the start and end is a very accurate way to accomplish the task... practice the concept for a moment before deciding how wrong it is... just because perhaps you have never seen it done this way before does not mean it is wrong... in fact, you may find it to be much more powerful and accurate than what you are asking for. :)

Bob L

I'm reminded of one of my favorite albums - Firesign Theater's "Everything You Know is Wrong"... :)

[Trackzilla]

I agree with your reasoning on the two button bit, and either 1 or 2 buttons works 4 me...and as an added bonus, using your delay module & ditching the 'echolive' free tap-enabled delay I was using scrapes me down to stable at the next lower buffer setting :)
woo-hoo!

[bcorkery]

I'm reminded of one of my favorite albums - Firesign Theater's "Everything You Know is Wrong"... :)Was that with "Nick Danger, 3rd Eye"?

[IraSeigel]

Was that with "Nick Danger, 3rd Eye"?

:) Yes!! I believe it was. :)

Actually, wasn't Nick Danger a recurring character on several of their albums? I think also on that "Marx/Lennon" album? And "Dwarf"?

Oh man, now I gotta dig out my old vinyl!!..............

[MMP]

My freshman year in college, the guy in the next room was fond of playing that album loudly between the hours of 2 & 3 in the morning. As a result, the whole thing lost most of it's silly charm for me.


Regards,


MM

[IraSeigel]

My freshman year in college, the guy in the next room was fond of playing that album loudly between the hours of 2 & 3 in the morning. As a result, the whole thing lost most of it's silly charm for me.


Regards,


MM

That might have been me. You didn't go to the Univ of MD did you? Early 70s? :)

[Leadfoot]

So much for that thread topic.. apparently everything I know is wrong, because I don't know anyone that mixes live that would go through all that to adjust delay times.

Anyone that has mixed live at a fest or club has got to know what I'm saying here.. it should be as easy (or easier) as reaching over to your rack and hitting the tap button, on the fly, at random, any time any where.. blah blah..

The whole idea of the tap feature was to make it faster/easier, otherwise what's the point.

Tony

[Tony Marone]

Hey I'm feelin' ya. Just tap the spacebar or whichever key on the beat of the music and then have the ability to chose 1/1, 1/2, 1/4, or 1/8. That should be all the options you need. I don't think the current way is completely unusable, just really cumbersome with 90 other things going on at the same time. Also, since I am not a drummer, doing something besides holding a burger with two hands is pretty hard!

[Bob L]

Well... sorry you find it so useless... I thought I was doing something nice for those that asked. :)

But... at least one nice thing about the feature... you're not forced to use it if you don't want to.

Bob L

[Leadfoot]

Well... sorry you find it so useless... I thought I was doing something nice for those that asked. :)

But... at least one nice thing about the feature... you're not forced to use it if you don't want to.

Bob LYes please forgive my tone there, had a rough one today.. you know I love your work. I guess sometimes I get a little too passionate about certain things. moving forward.. :)

thanks,
Tony