anybody using-

[mycorn]

Frontier Designs Dakota/Montana

i found this combo on craigs list for $200
[4x adat +spdif I/O]

says asio 2.0 etc.

i have 3 RME cards

any comparison in latency?

thnx
mh

[jkasko]

I'd like to know also. I own both, but I haven't been able to do a real world test yet.

-Joe

[Larry Burger]

I have Dakota and Montana on a machine.
This has worked fine for me.

[DominicPerry]

I'd like to know also. I own both, but I haven't been able to do a real world test yet.

-Joe

Sounds like you're doing the test then Joe.;)
I'd be stunned if anything beats the latency of the RME cards.

Dominic

[mycorn]

thanks all-


I'd be stunned if anything beats the latency of the RME cards.

Dominic

me too
but i'v now heard some even with them

over the last 4+ months <?>
i'd had a couple of musos say it sounded like a delay was on

when i'd go check it i never heard it

a couple days ago i had an unusual PA set up
and a guitar player/producer said something about it

when i went and yelled in it he said he didn hear it

turns out what they'v been calling delay
sounds like chorusing or phase shift if your off the mic a bit

i finally heard it as i was backing away

i thought it was psycho acoustics till i duplicated the
issue checking the rig before soundcheck yesterday

it appears to be a physical distance from the mic
that creates wierd little shifty sounding audio

if you have a muso tell you this they are not nutz

tell them it's a proximity issue

fwiw

mh

[DominicPerry]

The problem is that some people are sensitive to even the tiniest bit of latency. Bob maintains that good musicians don't mind. He may be right, but not everyone is a good musician. The problem tends to be with vocalists, especially with IEMs or cans, because under those circumstances, you're used to hearing everything instantly. Once you've got a guitar cab 5 feet away from you, that's 5 milliseconds delay.
You may find that comb filtering or flanging effects go away if you make the latency slightly longer.

You will always have audible latency even with 1x32 sample buffers. I can even hear A/D + D/A with no buffer. So for vocal recording, I use an analogue feed for my cans. But then, I'm not a very good musician, regardless of the technology.

Dominic

[mycorn]

You will always have audible latency even with 1x32 sample buffers. I can even hear A/D + D/A with no buffer. So for vocal recording, I use an analogue feed for my cans. But then, I'm not a very good musician, regardless of the technology.

Dominic

i know the "physics" too well as i had started all this pre beta
with all IEM's

hence my quest for the golden
"zero latency" of a sweet old analogue desk

i had never heard the precieved "delay" till resently
only _of_ it

i cant do anything about it's existance

i'm just more knowledgable now
and wont go wild goose chasing
for an errant "delay" that somehow got turned on in a monitor mix

in the grand timespacedistancecontinumthing

fwiw

[DominicPerry]

The only thing you can do is get a card/cards which go to 32 sample buffers and a machine which will drive them at 1x32 and then up the sample rate! You get half the delay at 96KHz than you get at 48KHz. But you need more processing power too.
And some of the newest A/D and D/A converters are claiming shorter conversion times - they each require about 0.5 - 1.0 m/s at the moment.

But, in reality, you're going to get the occasional person, probably vocalists, who notice and you just have to find a way of helping them. Either by adding some analogue front end for them, or convincing them that it's something they'll get used to. Or giving them a drink.

Dominic

[jazzboxmaker]

....Or giving them a drink

3 fingers of bourbon will broaden their concept of acceptable delay:D

[mycorn]

....Or giving them a drink

3 fingers of bourbon will broaden their concept of acceptable delay:D

this is my solution

wheather or not it helps _them_?!?!??

actually from testing it seems
[even to the last "victim"]
that staying right on the mic minimises the effect[affect?]

whatta concept-
stay on the mic and the monitors are loud and clear

...wow


fwiw

[Naturally Digital]

actually from testing it seems that staying right on the mic minimises the effectDid you rule out bleed from another open mic in the room?

[mycorn]

Did you rule out bleed from another open mic in the room?


i did not mute the other open mics

and having been a monitor engineer most of my
"carreer" i tend to get the stage really loud
out of habit

so this is not out of the question

i tend to believe it's a combination

ADA+distace off mic+distance to monitor+PA placement=
a tear in the universal time line

or i'm psyco...

fwiw

[Mountain Media]

i did not mute the other open mics

i tend to believe it's a combination

Other open mics may well be the source. Another possibility is a slightly delayed reflection off of something in the room. When the vocal is 'on the mic' the initial energy reaching the mic may successfully cover a low energy reflection, however as they back off, the energy reaching the mic might allow the reflection to successfully compete for a spot in the audio - 'specially if you gain up the mic some, compensating for the greater distance. Try having the vocal face a different place in the room and see if the affect changes.

[mycorn]

it did the some thing at another gig
with the whole "generic input" setup i have

the first time it was the "speaker on a stick"
songwriters rig

so it's not the room
or the PA "box" that causing it

i will hammer on this some more next time [saturday]
if i get a chance

the simple fix is to just stay on the mic

duuuuuh...

[Bill Park]

were I to encounter what you describe:

"turns out what they'v been calling delay
sounds like chorusing or phase shift if your off the mic a bit...
it appears to be a physical distance from the mic
that creates wierd little shifty sounding audio"

i would never ascribe it to anything having to do with digital or analog, i would suspect 'bounce' from foh, or leakage fromother open mics on the stage. the key here is, 'it appears to be a physical distance from the mic
that creates wierd little shifty sounding audio'


bill

[mycorn]

i might agree wholeheartedly

except i worked both rooms a lot
befor SAC with a 01v96 and never noticed it
nor was it brought to my attention

not to say it didn exist before...

fwiw