Success on my 1st Use of SAC - Musical Theatre

[RBIngraham]

So a couple of weeks ago now my first show opened with SAC. I have to say it's been great. I'm glad I spent quite a bit of time doing testing and planning, so I wasn't trying to figure it out in the heat of the moment. I think that could have been a disaster. Not because the software wouldn't have worked well, but because I am used to using just one console, one that would have Matrix outs and such tools as that. But once I sat down and thought about the new concept I figured out ways to do all the things I normally would need to do. In fact, as you probably suspect, it has a lot more power than the tools I've used in the past.

Having my own UI as the Sound Designer where I didn't need to fight the board op to tweak EQs, Dynamics, etc... was fantastic! I have worked this way recently with Yamaha desks, but many places I work will never be able to afford even a LS9, let alone a M7. And both of those consoles only allow 1 remote to log in. Pfff! wimps! LOL. :)

I was blown away that I was running at the lowest ASIO buffer size my Echo Layla 24 would run at, and even with several VST plugs running (3 reverbs, and 1 crazy pitch shift with the SAC Delay Effect for the "Evil Dead Effect") and several outptus in use, I was only at about 22% of the CPU (at the most) on a very modest 3GHz Pentium 4 CPU. (a fairly old PIV, no HT and only a 500MHz FSB)

Anway I put up a pdf on my web server showing the signal flow of my set up. If anyone is interested....

http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/documents/Visio-System%20Signal%20Flow%201.pdf

So thanks to Bob, for the great software app and thanks to the forum here for the help and pointers.

At some point I want to create a signal flow diagram for SAC. Would anyone else be interested in that?

Richard Ingraham

[RBIngraham]

Never MIND! My stupid web service won't let me link right to a file!!!!

GRRRR!


I'll have to build a web page with the diagrams when I have a chance, or drop me an email if you really want to see them, and I'll email it to you privately.

Richard

[RBIngraham]

570

Here we go! Diagram as a pdf in attachment.

Richard

[tomasino]

Cool.
An ADA8000, a Layla and a Gina.
Fabulous work.

Congrats!

[mako]

Nice work Richard - thanks for the diagrams too - very nicely done.

So - that's what Visio does - I'd never tried it.

Thanks - mako

[RBIngraham]

Nice work Richard - thanks for the diagrams too - very nicely done.

So - that's what Visio does - I'd never tried it.

Thanks - mako

Well the diagrams are something I tyipcally do as part of my paperwork for a show. Not every show, but most. Basically anytime I have a board op that might need to do troubleshooting that is skilled enough to read it and follow it. (some of my ops are just volunteers and/or fairly unskilled, but that's all you need for some shows where it's just a GO button push and only audio playback)

As for Visio, this is one of the things you can do with it. It's mostly a flow chart type tool. For computer networking diagrams, office flow chart stuff, etc... But several years ago, it was the only software that understood the concept of a "connection". Lots of drafting software can draw boxes with lines between them. :) But with Visio you can put a connection point on a box, and connect the boxes together, and then when you move the box around all the connections stay connected together. At the time I started doing this drafting with a computer rather than by hand, this was the only software I found that could do that. Now there are others, such as Star Draw and probably a lot more. But they also cost a lot more too. As far as drafting tools go Visio is fairly cheap. But it's not all that great for doing scale drawings of stuff, so I have to use another application for that. :)

Richard

[DavidandMary]

570

Here we go! Diagram as a pdf in attachment.

Richard

Great! Good clean diagram. Keep it up!:)

[bcorkery]

Great job Richard. I'd be interested in your Signal Flow diagram, thanks for the offier.

An option to Visio is Smart Draw (http://www.smartdraw.com/) and there are nice on-line tutorials voice by yours truly ... in SAW of course! :)

[RBIngraham]

Great job Richard. I'd be interested in your Signal Flow diagram, thanks for the offier.

An option to Visio is Smart Draw (http://www.smartdraw.com/) and there are nice on-line tutorials voice by yours truly ... in SAW of course! :)

I am working on the SAC diagrams, but just doing it in the spare time. So it will likely take me a while and since it's really 25 seperate mix consoles, I'm still thinking about how exactly I'm going to lay it out. Probably just show the Main mixer and show one monitor mixer and where the tap off points from the main desk happen. With maybe some kind of indicators showing how monitor mixer 2-24 get their signal... maybe....

And it will probably take a couple of tries to get it completely correct as I'm sure there will be some mistakes the first time through.

Richard

[mako]

Thanks for the Visio info Richard.

cheers

mako

[bcorkery]

Richard,

I know it's quite an undertaking. I think the one monitor will give a good idea of what the rest of them will do.

Thank you.

[RBIngraham]

I have moved the SAC diagram discussion to a new thread here:

http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9174

So the subject line makes sense.

1st stab is posted there.

Richard

[Cary B. Cornett]

So a couple of weeks ago now my first show opened with SAC. I have to say it's been great. ... I think that could have been a disaster. Not because the software wouldn't have worked well, but because I am used to using just one console, one that would have Matrix outs and such tools as that. But once I sat down and thought about the new concept I figured out ways to do all the things I normally would need to do. In fact, as you probably suspect, it has a lot more power than the tools I've used in the past. I know what you mean. I keep thinking back to when we used SawStudioLite to both mix and record a few local musical theater productions a few years ago. We started it as an experiment during rehearsals, not at all sure that we could make it work. We got the kinks worked out well enough that by "hell week" we chose to commit to the SSL setup. The "regular" system that was available used a cheap Alesis mixer, and all of the features that SawStudioLite brought to our table got us really spoiled in a hurry.


Having my own UI as the Sound Designer where I didn't need to fight the board op to tweak EQs, Dynamics, etc... was fantastic!

I would have really loved to use SAC on the shows we did (it wasn't available yet), and if I can find the budget for it, SAC is definitely on my list. I was the sound designer (creating effects and configuring the sound system) and my son ran FOH. I was using keyboard and mouse for things like EQ adjustments, while he ran faders and mutes from a BCF2000. We did get in each others' way a bit with display views changing (hot track moves, I lose the channel I was working on, stuff like that), so the separate UI for each function would have been a BIG help.

Your diagram, BTW, suggests a setup for a fairly small production... local community theater perhaps?? I had thought there was no business at that level (the first show I did was a "freebie", after which the producer I was working with insisted we be paid, even if the amount was nominal (maybe covering costs...). Is this a business for you, and if so how did you find the niche market for this?

[RBIngraham]

I know what you mean. I keep thinking back to when we used SawStudioLite to both mix and record a few local musical theater productions a few years ago. We started it as an experiment during rehearsals, not at all sure that we could make it work. We got the kinks worked out well enough that by "hell week" we chose to commit to the SSL setup. The "regular" system that was available used a cheap Alesis mixer, and all of the features that SawStudioLite brought to our table got us really spoiled in a hurry.



Yep. I felt the same way about SFX from Stage Research, when I first used it. Although that was many years ago now. SAC makes me feel like... Wow.. I wished I could have had this years ago. :p

To me the best part of using SAC has been the ability to write a cue (or scene as it's called) that will allow for the modification of as many or as few parameters as I want. It's been the biggest sticking point for me with the Yamaha digital desk. Even on their bigger expensive desks, if I want to just automate one small function it always seems like you have to jump throough all these hoops using recall safes and selective recall settings... all so I can do something like "fade up Aux 1 on inputs 3 and 4 over 5 seconds". :)

It's why I've used mostly external automation tools with the yamaha desks for years now. Essentially moving the "brain" of the desk to an external piece of software. But once Bob gets that MIDI control of scenes in SAC, then I'll just send very simple commands to recall the built in scenes in SAC and all will be fantastic. Or just have the board op press the space bar in SAC. But most shows I need to have just one place where the op presses the "GO" button.




Your diagram, BTW, suggests a setup for a fairly small production... local community theater perhaps?? I had thought there was no business at that level (the first show I did was a "freebie", after which the producer I was working with insisted we be paid, even if the amount was nominal (maybe covering costs...). Is this a business for you, and if so how did you find the niche market for this?

It's a small professional company. Or so they like to think of themselves as. Everyone gets paid. But the pay is... shall we say... well... you're not going to make your living solely from working for them. I just do it mostly by volume of shows. If you do a enough shows that kinda, sorta pay, I've found you can eek out a living. I also happen to work for another software developer part time. (Stage Research) So that helps pay the bills. Most of the people working at the theatre that I have SAC running at have day jobs or one type or another. (think... they teach theatre at a school, or have a desk job some place... etc..)

I guess I just got lucky in Cleveland. There is just enough work to make this model work. Then I do a fair amount of work out of town as well. Those typically pay a lot better. (isn't that always how it works?) I used to work for a major regional theatre in the area. That is how I got started. So I built up experience that way.

Most days it's fun being a freelancer. But it can be tough when you're never sure exactly how much money you'll make in the next year and more importantly when you'll get paid. Most pay right on time, but not all. :)

One of the reasons that system is fairly small is the the space is only 88 seats. But still it's 10 speakers. That's a fairly good sized system for such a small space. :)

Main Speakers are 4 - EV SX300 knock offs
2 - Renkus Heinz over the stage (forget the models, they are small.. think movie theatre surround speakers)
3 - more RH one in each corner of the room, except for the corner of the room backstage
1 - Mackie self powered subwoofer

This doesn't include a few speakers for the band to hear themselves, the actors and so they can hear the sound effects playback.

So I think it's a good sized system given the room. It's still a hodge podge of course.

Richard