Saving mix-session with corrupt settings creates 'Ghost windows'

During the tests related to http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...oad-a-mix-file I detected this:

1. Create an empty mix file.
2. Add a VST plugin and the native Echo/Delay plugin to input channel 1.
3. Add the same VST plugin and the native Echo/Delay plugin to output 1.
4. Save mix-session
5. Exit SAC
6. Rename the dll of the vst plug-in
7. Restart SAC
8. Open the mix file. 'Corrupt settings' warning will occur.
9. Plug-in section shows <<Name of renamed plugin>> and Studio Echo/Delay, if Echo/Delay windows does not show, click on entry to show it.
10. Click on 'Save and update file'
11. Open the mix again.
12. The Echo/Delay window is visible, but the FX lists are empty (but the indicator at the upper left indicates active plugin).

I know that you should not perform step 10 before you've checked and corrected the corrupt setting. But the same hapens when the 'Save / recall schutdown session' is active and you exit SAC before fixing the corrupt settings.

More info

• With the plugin just in one input channel or just in one output channel will not create this problem.
• Did not test for two inputs or two outputs.
• Tested with two different VST plug-ins ( tapeIt and TDR VOS Slick Eq)

Tomy

Tomy,

Interesting test scenario!
* May I ask what is the point of/to this test?
* I do not ever see this occurring as who would rename an actual "used" .dll and expect all to work as before.

I noticed that on the second launch, the FX status displays an installed plugin though there is no plugin actually inserted.
* This anomaly can be resolved by inserting a plugin and then removing that previously inserted plugin.

I also tested this scenario in Reaper and received a similar error.

Again, may I ask what the point is to all of this? And again, why would anyone remove a previously inserted plugin and then delete/rename that plugin without prescient understanding of the end result or the effect on that session.

By-the-way, this "ghost" scenario occurs in many Windows-based apps – such as MS Word. For example, edit a Word document, hard shut-down the computer, re-boot the computer, launch Word, a "TMP" file is created with the last accessed time/date stamp. This TMP data file however, is not the same as an UNDO file.

I did some searching for the reason why this ghost things happen.

I've seen the 'corrupt parameter' settings in some scenarios before and I'd expected that SAC could handle it.

There might be some szenarios for this, like moving the mix-file to an other machine, where the plugin is missing or of a different version, key - file missing and so on. In this case I tend to shut down SAC and try to fix the problem.

I'm sure that this will never happen to you, but it (or something generating a similar effect) happend on my machine.

Tomy

Tomy,

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I did some searching for the reason why this ghost things happen

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... I do not see this anomaly as "a ghost thing". This anomaly is simply "a Windows thing".

Quote:

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There might be some szenarios for this, like moving the mix-file to an other machine, where the plugin is missing or of a different version, key - file missing and so on

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Again, in any transfer of data scenario, the destination system must replicate - as much as it is possible, the source system. Would you not agree?

Quote:

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I'm sure that this will never happen to you, but it (or something generating a similar effect) happend on my machine

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... the bane of all troubleshooting scenarios - is the situation a system/application error or a user error!

Thanks for defining this as an user error.

I'd exspect that a software, especiall a software used in a szenario as SAC, can handle an erratic situation, which it detects, in a safe way.
So when the stupid user (=me) or the software itself (via save/restore shutdown session) tries to save a mix-file containing plugins with erratic settings, there are two working solutions:
- Leave everything as it is, so that the erratic parameters will be displayed on next loading again
- Or remove the plug-ins with erratic settings from the mix file.
Currently SAC does none of them but leaves the stupid user (= me) correct configured and available plug-ins uncontrollable.

Tomy

Tomy,

Forgive me if you felt that I was insulting you. That s NOT my intent at all!

My last comment was to be inferred as situational only - "How can I best serve my client when called up to troubleshoot and issue?"

As I sincerely believe Bob to an incredibly unique individual, so can be said of his work. SAW and SAC are both unique and individual software applications.

However, this uniqueness and individualism comes at a cost - and which is to be expected.

What do I mean by this, though I would expect all native plugins to work and to work without incident - as much as this is possible, I really-and-truly do NOT expect third party plugins to work - PERIOD!

Therefore, if I have an interest in a third-party plugin - I will assume that plugin will not work until proven otherwise. If it does not work I will then source out alternatives. If there are no alternatives, then I will consult with the developer and see what ensues. If there is no resolve, I then will consider if there are other means of being able to accomplish the task at hand. If not - then "c'est la vie"!

So you state, "Currently SAC does none of them but leaves the stupid user (= me) correct configured and available plug-ins uncontrollable." - In my tests, both SAC and Reaper acknowledged that there was as issue with the plugin. Are you expecting the software to actually resolve the issue? Pardon me, but it would appear this to be the case. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

I didn't ask for anything.


I reported a problem with SAC and provided as much detail as possible.


To reiterate, the problem is not the 'Corrupted Parameter' warning.
If we want to call something a problem, I would use this term for the fact that SAC saves a mix file with known problems (detected by SAC!) in such a way that previously working parts are affected.
As mentioned above, I would assume that SAC either saves the corrupted parameters as they are (so you have the option to reinstall the plugin and get things working again), so by reopening the Mix- File is exactly restored to its saved status.
Or to remove the plug-ins that were identified as defective before saving.

Tomy