What do you use for pitch correction?

[Ian Alexander]

I've got to say that engineers are their own worst enemy in this regard. Whilst carping on about the 'loudness wars' and overhyped highs on everything, how rubbish all the present autotuned chart stuff is - if you then compress the hell out of everything, autotune it all, crank up the 12KHz on it all and 'master' to within an inch of it's life, then you're part of the problem.

Sorry, I'm competing with Mark now, and I need the practice.

OBC 6/10

Dominic

I don't disagree with you from an idealistic perspective, but practically we have to recognize where we are on the food chain. Until we have some sort of professional certification and licensing for audio engineers and the "board" crafts rules about acceptable practices, anyone who denies their clients' wants is simply out of a job. If you are in a situation, financially or professionally, where you can turn those clients away, great. Otherwise, you're making a symbolic but unnoticed self sacrifice.

I just don't see a growing tide of engineers who buck the trend until it's considered uncool to use AT, etc., eventually forcing substandard musicians to find other meaningful pursuits.

[Brent Evans]

I don't disagree with you from an idealistic perspective, but practically we have to recognize where we are on the food chain. Until we have some sort of professional certification and licensing for audio engineers and the "board" crafts rules about acceptable practices, anyone who denies their clients' wants is simply out of a job. If you are in a situation, financially or professionally, where you can turn those clients away, great. Otherwise, you're making a symbolic but unnoticed self sacrifice.

I just don't see a growing tide of engineers who buck the trend until it's considered uncool to use AT, etc., eventually forcing substandard musicians to find other meaningful pursuits.

Autotune isn't all bad though. I just got done with a project for a family I know. They're not, and don't want to be, professionals, but they have a lot of friends around who like their music (bluegrass gospel stuff). They weren't aware of the tuning issues until the first proof set, and I was able to correct a lot of it transparently for them and improve the performance.

It also gives me the ability to threaten to "Brittney" people when they get out of tune, just for laughs (they wouldn't get a Kanye reference).

[Tim Miskimon]

I still prefer the singer to sing the part over but if that's not possible:
When I need to tweek a voice I prefer Melodyne.
It seems to work best for me.
Autotune left too many artifacts that I just couldn't accept.

[John Ludlow]

Thank you all for your great answers. It would seem that, in general, although "no pitch correction required" is the preferred solution - Melodyne is the reluctant, 'though perhaps realistic, second choice (and has a version with no iLok...).

[Bill Park]

What do you do if the crappy singer is your client (not that I have any crappy singers for clients)? Let the truth stand, or give them the best product you can make?


Regards,

MM

If I've got to diddle the audio to put it in pitch, what do I need them for? I can sing out of tune all by myself, tune it up, and make myself sound good. (well, really, I can hit the notes I try to hit, which is why on occasion I have considered myself to be a singer, performed for others, and even gotten paid for being able to do so in an acceptable and at times even pleasing fashion...)

[Ian Alexander]

If I've got to diddle the audio to put it in pitch, what do I need them for? I can sing out of tune all by myself, tune it up, and make myself sound good. (well, really, I can hit the notes I try to hit, which is why on occasion I have considered myself to be a singer, performed for others, and even gotten paid for being able to do so in an acceptable and at times even pleasing fashion...)

If you're HIRING them to sing a jingle or whatever, that's one thing. But if the singer is your client, what you "need them for" is the money they're paying you.

[Bill Park]

If you're HIRING them to sing a jingle or whatever, that's one thing. But if the singer is your client, what you "need them for" is the money they're paying you.

Not me. They're in the wrong room. I get money for taking recording gigs, but I don't take recording gigs for the money. Important distinction.

[Mark Stebbeds]

Not me. They're in the wrong room. I get money for taking recording gigs, but I don't take recording gigs for the money. Important distinction.

OBC 8.0 (with a ? on correctness)

So do you audition talent before you let them hire you to record? Or do you fire them after the fact when they don't meet your standards, instead of helping them through the process?

OBC 7/10

EDIT: 7.5

Mark

[Bill Park]

So do you audition talent before you let them hire you to record? Or do you fire them after the fact when they don't meet your standards, instead of helping them through the process?
Mark

I've done both.

In the first place, I never did take just anyone that walked through the door... well, not after the first couple of years, anyway. I always knew or went to see the act, and I always had preproduction meetings.

I have indeed shown bands the door in the middle of sessions. The last time was a world class pianist, and the sessions were done, we were editing the final tracks. She insulted me, then tried to throw her 'Diva' act which may cowl symphony staffs and adoring fans but pissed me off even more. I showed her the door. She and her handlers spent two weeks trying to get me back on board. Never happened. To me, RESPECT is a two way street.

And it is certainly NOT my job to 'help them through the process', if by what you mean when you say 'help' is to show them how they can avoid learning their craft. If you claim to be a singer, I damned well expect you to know how to sing. If you can't hit the notes, why are you in that key? And why do I have to ask? When talent arrives at your door supposedly ready to record, they should already know what they are doing, or they are at your door prematurely. (of course, there is always room for a little Red Light Fever, and yeah, we try to help ... which is why the studio was called "Welcome Home" in the first place. I created a comfortable atmosphere for musicians, when other studios were alien places for rockers. The key words here MUSICIANS WELCOME.)

All of this plays into our current society and the instant gratification we seem to think is our right. When we want something NOW somebody better be able to provide it NOW and CHEAP. With pitch correction, anybody that decides to claim to be a singer can be a singer. You see this as good, I see it as abysmal. Karaoke every day. (sigh...)

The fact is that in this business you set your own worth. If you cater to the wannabees, those are the people that will hire you. If you expect a certain level of competency, you will be associated with a better level of product, and people who want that level of product will seek out your services. At last, it has worked out that way for me.

I have a friend with a very nice room and fair to middlin' gear. He is very good. But between the better clients he takes a lot of mediocre acts, fixes them all up, but the end product is still mediocre because the talent or the maturity of the talent is not there... so he is getting tarred with the mediocre level of the product coming out of his room, and the better clients are looking elsewhere. This is a shame, because his room is fantastic and he is top drawer. So there are long term ramifications to taking whatever walks through the door to make a buck.

[Bill Park]

I agree, Mark.... I've seen a lot of recording studios go down because they loved music. They loved the sessions so much, they forgot to bill for things. They loved the kinship of fellow 'plinkers', and forgot they had rent and upkeep and pesky things, like salaries. In my industry, a lot of people refuse to do work with certain clients, only wait for big ticket clients, cool fun party clients, and again forgot they had rent and upkeep and pesky things, like salaries..

Knowing how to effectively market your services is key to the success of any business. Knowing who you want to reach, and how you want them to view you and your services is important. We've done pretty well. I've retired, and don't expect to work again unless something is so inviting that I can't stay away. The places that you mention, these were not run by businessmen. That is like buying a bar because you like to drink beer.