OT Live eq vs. studio eq

[mojogil]

Hi folks,
I've gotten so much great advice from this forum I figured I'd post my latest question and hope that it will help others as well as myself. Even though I'm a little embarrased to ask this one.
I can consistantly get the band I mix to sound great, I usually get compliments on the sound, especially since I started with SAC. I don't usually do a ton of eq'ing. Mostly because I don't always know what to eq. I find a lot of threads and articles online with helpful eq suggestions but they are mostly studio related. I'm looking to learn more about eq and live sound. How to place things in the mix, what to boost, and what to cut. What are the problematic frequencies etc. I know things are different in different rooms and different systems but there must be some decent "rule of thumbs" out there. Can anyone point to any articles or other helpful things.
Thanks,
Gil

[Mark Stebbeds]

Don't worry about it. If you think it sounds great, then it does.

Think of EQ as a tool to fix a problem, not as a necessity or requirement to make things sound good. If you are having a sonic problem, then post a specific question. There is really not a general answer.

There is little difference between EQing for the studio or for live in terms of how instruments respond, other than the different microphones used. Tricks you learn in the studio will apply to a live mix. Mistakes you make live will be more obvious in the studio in a controlled listening environment.

By not using a lot of EQ, you have something in common with the top recording engineers in the country. Overuse of EQ to "shape a sound" is a common mistake of amateurs, in my opinion.
Mark

[Brent Evans]

Don't worry about it. If you think it sounds great, then it does.

Think of EQ as a tool to fix a problem, not as a necessity or requirement to make things sound good. If you are having a sonic problem, then post a specific question. There is really not a general answer.

There is little difference between EQing for the studio or for live in terms of how instruments respond, other than the different microphones used. Tricks you learn in the studio will apply to a live mix. Mistakes you make live will be more obvious in the studio in a controlled listening environment.

By not using a lot of EQ, you have something in common with the top recording engineers in the country. Overuse of EQ to "shape a sound" is a common mistake of amateurs, in my opinion.
Mark

+1. The first time I ever got compliments on sound was the Sunday after I went and zero'd the EQs and started from scratch, only notching for feedback. I learned that lesson quickly.

[mojogil]

Thanks!
Here's a specific question. Male singer, country/rock. He sings loud but talks quiet. I'd like to get a little more sparkle on his voice, maybe take out a little mushy type sound. I have Bob's Gym HD verb on while he sings but mute it between songs. What frequencies would you reccommend to start with? He sings through a standard SM58.
Gil

[Bud Johnson]

For mushy, (muddy?), try pulling down stuff generally between 180 HZ- 325 hz. This will vary on the individual singer. Should have the same effect as adding sparkle. Also use tha HP filter on the verb. I generally would put it around 250 hz. Reverberated mush is like milk on a lens. In fact try that 1st, it may be the issue.
YMMV,
I'm sure others have other /additional ideas.

[Brent Evans]

Thanks!
Here's a specific question. Male singer, country/rock. He sings loud but talks quiet. I'd like to get a little more sparkle on his voice, maybe take out a little mushy type sound. I have Bob's Gym HD verb on while he sings but mute it between songs. What frequencies would you reccommend to start with? He sings through a standard SM58.
Gil

"Sparkle" is highs, "Mush" is low mids. Take a band of your EQ, set it at 1 - 1.5 octaves, and 6 db cut and start by removing low mids, sweep around to find the frequency that sounds right (low mids are 100-1k). When you get the best sound, then fine tune the trim level and Q to get the sound you want. You can do this with the "sparkle" range around 4-10k too, but beware the feedback monster. He likes to come out when you boost highs.

OR, you can pop a RTA on there and watch it while he's talking. That will tell you where the energy is. Set center and Q appropriately.

[Trackzilla]

+1
the goal is to have a perfect mic and placement choice for each signal, and a system that also reproduces what you put in perfectly...then your audio exits perfectly & the world is a happy place with flowers & bunnies & dancing promoters. EQ is simply one more tool to try to overcome what isn't perfect...OK typically everything

If something sounds right, sits politely in the mix, and isn't blowing anything up, DON'T fix it.

heh, I answered the phone while typing this, when I came back & posted, there were a pile of new posts in between

[Bud Johnson]

I called you to make sure my post beat yours!

[Mark Stebbeds]

Here's a specific question. Male singer, country/rock. He sings loud but talks quiet. I'd like to get a little more sparkle on his voice, maybe take out a little mushy type sound. I have Bob's Gym HD verb on while he sings but mute it between songs. What frequencies would you reccommend to start with? He sings through a standard SM58.

First, lose the reverb until you get the sound right.

Next, I would roll off (low cut/high pass filter) everything below 80 hz. If it still sounds muddy, notch out a couple db in the 100 hz-350 hz range, being careful not to go much higher than that or you'll take away the presence. The majority of the sonic information (intelligibility and fullness) is in the 500-1000 hz range, so don't mess with that on a voice.

When you use an artistic description like 'sparkle', it's easy to misunderstand. If you want the vocal to cut through a dense mix more, try a db or two at around 2k. If you just want it to sound "brighter", try a db or two shelving EQ starting somewhere between 5k and 10k ...this is dependent on the voice.

Important thing to remember is take it in 'baby steps', a couple of db at a time until you get a feel for what is really happening. There is a lot of cacophony in a live mix that there is not much you can do about.

Mark

[hclague]

Thanks!
Here's a specific question. Male singer, country/rock. He sings loud but talks quiet. I'd like to get a little more sparkle on his voice, maybe take out a little mushy type sound. I have Bob's Gym HD verb on while he sings but mute it between songs. What frequencies would you reccommend to start with? He sings through a standard SM58.
Gil

Gil

As an alternative to the other suggestions, trying a different mic is always an option. The SM58 is one of my LEAST favorite vocal mics. So many better choices out there. ( Sennheiser 945 may give you what you're looking for for instance ).

Hal