ADA8000 issues

[Yogi]

The ADA8000s are really good units in spite of the power supply problems, and with the voltage reduction autotransformer they work really well. For the price they cannot be beat. Are there other units around that perform better, yes. Bang for the buck though they can't be touched.

[dbarrow]

The ADA8000s are really good units in spite of the power supply problems, and with the voltage reduction autotransformer they work really well. For the price they cannot be beat. Are there other units around that perform better, yes. Bang for the buck though they can't be touched.

I was looking at the Presonus Digimax FS. The outputs in the back are TRS, so you would have to have an adapter snake or patch panel to use them in a normal pro situation - adding more to the cost.

Is there even another unit that has XLR inputs AND outputs with lightpipe connections? Another high-end option would be the RME MADI stuff, but you almost wouldn't need the MADI connection if all the audio interface stuff was in the same rack as the computer. I think I looked at Apogee one time, but you would have to have separate input and output units, thus taking up twice the rack space. I'm just thinking out loud here (can you hear me? If so, you may need to be medicated...). What are the other options on the high end for SAC input/output? I'm happy with the Behringers (Midas? Yikes!).

[Leadfoot]

I was looking at the Presonus Digimax FS. The outputs in the back are TRS, so you would have to have an adapter snake or patch panel to use them in a normal pro situation

Is there even another unit that has XLR inputs AND outputs with lightpipe connections? What are the other options on the high end for SAC input/output? I'm happy with the Behringers (Midas? Yikes!).

That's exactly what I said many moons ago, (and nobody here really agreed with me) there really is no other product with the exact same connections and functionality as the ada8000. Kind of surprising that Behringer is the only one making a product like that, and no one else sees a need for the same unit with even slightly higher quality parts/design. I was just (briefly) sitting here thinking maybe I could just create one myself.. that's how (close to) great I think these ada's are. Anyways, back to reality.

[RBIngraham]

I was looking at the Presonus Digimax FS. The outputs in the back are TRS, so you would have to have an adapter snake or patch panel to use them in a normal pro situation - adding more to the cost.

Is there even another unit that has XLR inputs AND outputs with lightpipe connections? Another high-end option would be the RME MADI stuff, but you almost wouldn't need the MADI connection if all the audio interface stuff was in the same rack as the computer. I think I looked at Apogee one time, but you would have to have separate input and output units, thus taking up twice the rack space. I'm just thinking out loud here (can you hear me? If so, you may need to be medicated...). What are the other options on the high end for SAC input/output? I'm happy with the Behringers (Midas? Yikes!).

Just to respond to your thoughts here....

I don't think that really adds all that much to the cost, if any added costs at all. Even if the outputs are XLR, you still have to patch them right? That means you still need some cable to go from a female XLR to whatever connector is used on the next device in the chain, whether that be your amps or whatever. An XLR to XLR snake is no cheaper than a 1/4" TRS to XLR Snake. Now you're current cabling might be all set up for XLR so you see it as an added cost and that makes sense. But if you're building an all new rig, the over all cable costs won't be any higher. Or not significantly. I won't argue that I would rather have XLR outs as well.

But if I'm putting a system together for a client, I'm not going to mess around with ADA8000s and telling them they need to keep a spare around because they will need it at some point and/or add on voltage dropping devices. Most clients I think you could justify the extra costs and heck, most clients are not going to know there is a cheaper option if you just spec Presonus. And most of the ones that do will likely know enough that if you simply say I really prefer you not go with the cheapest of the cheap for your own good.... well they'll understand why.

It seems that as typical, Behringer got just about everything right on these except using quality components and making them reliable! For some of us anyway this is just a touch more important than having a convienent connector on the back.

[gdougherty]

Just to respond to your thoughts here....

I don't think that really adds all that much to the cost, if any added costs at all. Even if the outputs are XLR, you still have to patch them right? That means you still need some cable to go from a female XLR to whatever connector is used on the next device in the chain, whether that be your amps or whatever. An XLR to XLR snake is no cheaper than a 1/4" TRS to XLR Snake. Now you're current cabling might be all set up for XLR so you see it as an added cost and that makes sense. But if you're building an all new rig, the over all cable costs won't be any higher. Or not significantly. I won't argue that I would rather have XLR outs as well.

But if I'm putting a system together for a client, I'm not going to mess around with ADA8000s and telling them they need to keep a spare around because they will need it at some point and/or add on voltage dropping devices. Most clients I think you could justify the extra costs and heck, most clients are not going to know there is a cheaper option if you just spec Presonus. And most of the ones that do will likely know enough that if you simply say I really prefer you not go with the cheapest of the cheap for your own good.... well they'll understand why.

It seems that as typical, Behringer got just about everything right on these except using quality components and making them reliable! For some of us anyway this is just a touch more important than having a convienent connector on the back.

Depends on the clients. For a lot of churches and even some of the commercial venues I've dealt with, the ADA8000 and a step-down transformer is a no-brainer. We'll see where I'm at in another few years, but I've got a total of 8 under my care and they've all been solidly reliable with the transformers. Assuming the cheapest pricing I can find on new, non-b-stock items, it's an $1100 difference between the FS and ADA's in a typical 32 channel config. With all the reports of people running them for extended periods of time with transformers and no issues it seems like the intelligent way to go, considering features and otherwise high sound quality on the ADA's.

[RBIngraham]

That's exactly what I said many moons ago, (and nobody here really agreed with me) there really is no other product with the exact same connections and functionality as the ada8000. Kind of surprising that Behringer is the only one making a product like that, and no one else sees a need for the same unit with even slightly higher quality parts/design. I was just (briefly) sitting here thinking maybe I could just create one myself.. that's how (close to) great I think these ada's are. Anyways, back to reality.

Granted I guess there is not another unit that has all XLR in and out and is a single rack space, OK. But there are certainly other options that have all XLR, but they might be 2 rack spaces, or they have 1/4" TRS rather than XLR outputs. Of course most of the options also cost significantly more as well.

I can see choosing the Behringers simply based on price, that is certainly the reason I have several but that is the only reason frankly.

If you want something of better quality it seems to be you're just going to have to pay for it.

Sorry I guess I just don't get the argument that having the XLR outs is all that important if you have the money to spend for something better where you don't need to carry around 2 spares for the inevitable failure. Or you could just go with something that has the same connections but takes up more than a single rack space.

There are plenty of other options out there for folks with deeper pockets. Aphex, RME, Presonus, probably several others I don't know about.

[gdougherty]

Depends on the clients. For a lot of churches and even some of the commercial venues I've dealt with, the ADA8000 and a step-down transformer is a no-brainer. We'll see where I'm at in another few years, but I've got a total of 8 under my care and they've all been solidly reliable with the transformers. Assuming the cheapest pricing I can find on new, non-b-stock items, it's an $1100 difference between the FS and ADA's in a typical 32 channel config. With all the reports of people running them for extended periods of time with transformers and no issues it seems like the intelligent way to go, considering features and otherwise high sound quality on the ADA's.

Not to say the Presonus is a poor choice if you've got the money for it. A church I mixed at recently with racks of backstage London Soundwebs for all i/o sending cobranet to an M7CL for mainly control duties would likely opt for even better than the Presonus and still have remote preamps. IMO, SAC would have made a far better frontend to the SoundWeb units than the M7CL.

[RBIngraham]

Depends on the clients. For a lot of churches and even some of the commercial venues I've dealt with, the ADA8000 and a step-down transformer is a no-brainer. We'll see where I'm at in another few years, but I've got a total of 8 under my care and they've all been solidly reliable with the transformers. Assuming the cheapest pricing I can find on new, non-b-stock items, it's an $1100 difference between the FS and ADA's in a typical 32 channel config. With all the reports of people running them for extended periods of time with transformers and no issues it seems like the intelligent way to go, considering features and otherwise high sound quality on the ADA's.

So just to play devil's advocate here George

Is $1100 in the grand scheme of things really that much money? I mean add up all the equipment in your entire sound system. All the mics, speakers, amps, cables, components, computer, etc, etc, etc... I bet $1100 is a tiny fraction of your over all system worth.

Just for the sake of debate. I'm not trying to question your judgment or choices.

[gdougherty]

So just to play devil's advocate here George

Is $1100 in the grand scheme of things really that much money? I mean add up all the equipment in your entire sound system. All the mics, speakers, amps, cables, components, computer, etc, etc, etc... I bet $1100 is a tiny fraction of your over all system worth.

Just for the sake of debate. I'm not trying to question your judgment or choices.

In comparison, no. The last inventory I did for my portable rig, mics, electronics and all put me somewhere around $30K in replacement value at regular retail prices. For myself and a lot of churches though, we don't have the one-time budget to spend an extra $1100 if we're already spending a few thou on the SAC rig and other misc upgrades, cabling etc. You've probably read my follow-up by now and I'm not saying it wouldn't be a good option in some cases. Small clubs and smaller church venues though often don't have the budget. You can see that regularly around here. People cutting back on things, buying the most cost effective interface cards so they can fit within a small budget. In many of our cases, mine included, it's the difference between SAC being a viable option or not. I had just under $3K to spend when I built my SAC rig and part of that came from selling my 32 channel analog that I needed for larger events. Accomplishing a 32 channel config within budget was a must-have and $4K wasn't going to happen soon enough. I work with churches on a regular basis that cringe at the thought of spending $1500 on a board they need because things below that price point won't give them the channel count and feature set they need.

[RBIngraham]

Not to say the Presonus is a poor choice if you've got the money for it. A church I mixed at recently with racks of backstage London Soundwebs for all i/o sending cobranet to an M7CL for mainly control duties would likely opt for even better than the Presonus and still have remote preamps. IMO, SAC would have made a far better frontend to the SoundWeb units than the M7CL.

I'm sure they did that because they wanted to only have to run a piece of CAT5 to FOH rather than dozens of mic lines.

The only thing to watch out for, if you or anyone else every went down this path is that I've yet to find a really good Cobranet sound card for hooking up a computer directly. A company named AudioScience makes one, but I have reports of it being problematic. So I would only go that route if I could get a unit in for testing to make sure it works well with SAC or whatever software you wished to use it with.

Of course the other reason they likely have all that gear is because most people are going to equate cost with quality and I bet the installer/contractor made a nice piece of change installing all that gear. Let's face it, no contractor is going to make any profit selling and installing ADA8000s. Unless of course they were to just mark them up a ridiculous amount. Like it or not the sound contractors do need to make a living so being able to mark up the products you sell/install is important in that arena as well.