SMAART or Systune with SAC

[Jeff Scott]

Read a few posts from waaaaayyyy...back about folks attempting transfer function programs like SMAART and such with SAC. Curious to know...is anyone running SMAART and using it with SAC to optimize their systems? If so...are you running SMAART on the SAC Host? Or do you run it on a separate Laptop? If Laptop...what are you using as an Inteface?

I like the idea of being able to run SMAART on the SAC host and thru my ADA8000's. I would only be using it for system alignment and would not require it's use during a show. Wondering if SMAART would step all over SAC....

[Bill Park]

I don't know the answer to your particular question, but I can tell you that I worked on the JBL touring system for Phil Leash and Friends several years ago for Don Pearson at UltraSound. When we put the system together, UltraSound had SMAART running on its own laptop, next to another laptop running the system steering software during the concerts. I didn't ask why. Don was fairly strong about SMAART, but then he was involved in SMAART for many years and was the Dr. Don from their "Ask Dr. Don".

[airickess]

Read a few posts from waaaaayyyy...back about folks attempting transfer function programs like SMAART and such with SAC. Curious to know...is anyone running SMAART and using it with SAC to optimize their systems? If so...are you running SMAART on the SAC Host? Or do you run it on a separate Laptop? If Laptop...what are you using as an Inteface?

I like the idea of being able to run SMAART on the SAC host and thru my ADA8000's. I would only be using it for system alignment and would not require it's use during a show. Wondering if SMAART would step all over SAC....

I've used SMAART for system tuning on a gig using SAC. SMAART was running on my laptop. I used an M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB interface on the laptop to interface with the desktop that was running SAC. I treated the setup the same as if I was using a traditional console and had no problems at all.
I'm not sure I'd use SMAART on the SAC host. I don't see the I/O cabling being much different but I'm not sure I'd want the possible issues with each program needing to access the card at the same time or what kind of CPU loads would be needed to use both at the same time (I'm not sure how much resources SMAART uses). I feel at this time that it's best to just use a separate computer for SMAART.

[IraSeigel]

Read a few posts from waaaaayyyy...back about folks attempting transfer function programs like SMAART and such with SAC. Curious to know...is anyone running SMAART and using it with SAC to optimize their systems? If so...are you running SMAART on the SAC Host? Or do you run it on a separate Laptop? If Laptop...what are you using as an Inteface?

I like the idea of being able to run SMAART on the SAC host and thru my ADA8000's. I would only be using it for system alignment and would not require it's use during a show. Wondering if SMAART would step all over SAC....

I've used SMAART v5 on my SAC laptop, and it made me nervous. I started running it on another machine. The interface I've seen very commonly is the Tascam 122, which is sufficient for SMAART.

That was about a year ago. Since then, I've heard so many systems where the house engineer is so proud of his SMAART-tuned rig, and most of the time they sound like crap. So I'm not a big fan of SMAART. Or, more precisely, I'm not a big fan of using SMAART to tune a system when you don't REALLY know the ins and outs of the software and how to use it effectively.

Just my .02,
Ira

[Jeff Scott]

I'm not sure I'd want the possible issues with each program needing to access the card at the same time or what kind of CPU loads would be needed to use both at the same time (I'm not sure how much resources SMAART uses). I feel at this time that it's best to just use a separate computer for SMAART.

That's precisely the issues I'm concerned about. I'll transfer my demo copy of SMAART over to the SAC Host and see what happens.

[dbarrow]

That's precisely the issues I'm concerned about. I'll transfer my demo copy of SMAART over to the SAC Host and see what happens.

I have used SMAART quite bit. For me it is useful for identifying peaks in room response above 250-300 hz. If I have a lot of time, I can use it to fine tune the low end, but often my FOH position ends up being too close to the back wall and I get wild low end readings from the rear wall reflection canceling or adding. The mids and highs bear some resemblance to the readings taken in the sweet spot (where I can never be, except with the netbook, walking around), so I can continue to use it during the show. I definitely don't trust it as the last word on the room EQ. I mainly use my ears and look to SMAART as a tool. Every once in a while I get strange readings and I know that something wasn't set right to get a correct measurement, so I start again.

I really haven't used SMAART much since switching to SAC. I may try running it on my notebook concurrent with SACRemote. I would use a Presonus Firebox I have as the audio interface and run a long then XLR cord from a main output on the host (reference signal) back to the notebook and use a shorter cord for the measurement mic near my mix position. I don't see why it wouldn't work. The Firebox has nothing to do with SAC, just SMAART. SACRemote is running as a remote control only, so even if it choked from having SMAART running at the same time, I could just scrap the SMAART setup and try again.

[hclague]

I've used SMAART for system tuning on a gig using SAC. SMAART was running on my laptop. I used an M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB interface on the laptop to interface with the desktop that was running SAC. I treated the setup the same as if I was using a traditional console and had no problems at all.
I'm not sure I'd use SMAART on the SAC host. I don't see the I/O cabling being much different but I'm not sure I'd want the possible issues with each program needing to access the card at the same time or what kind of CPU loads would be needed to use both at the same time (I'm not sure how much resources SMAART uses). I feel at this time that it's best to just use a separate computer for SMAART.

This is pretty much my exact setup as well, just substitute the M-Audio Mobilepre for the fastrack.

Hal

[RBIngraham]

Read a few posts from waaaaayyyy...back about folks attempting transfer function programs like SMAART and such with SAC. Curious to know...is anyone running SMAART and using it with SAC to optimize their systems? If so...are you running SMAART on the SAC Host? Or do you run it on a separate Laptop? If Laptop...what are you using as an Inteface?

I like the idea of being able to run SMAART on the SAC host and thru my ADA8000's. I would only be using it for system alignment and would not require it's use during a show. Wondering if SMAART would step all over SAC....

Jeff,

Unless the sound card you are using has multi-client drivers (like some of the RME products) then you wouldn't be able to share the same sound card running SAC with your SMAART software.

You could always add a second small sound card just to run SMAART and use the same computer. I doubt that would cause much hassle. It would just be best to be a completely different make and model of the sound card you're using with SAC.

[RBIngraham]

I've used SMAART v5 on my SAC laptop, and it made me nervous. I started running it on another machine. The interface I've seen very commonly is the Tascam 122, which is sufficient for SMAART.

That was about a year ago. Since then, I've heard so many systems where the house engineer is so proud of his SMAART-tuned rig, and most of the time they sound like crap. So I'm not a big fan of SMAART. Or, more precisely, I'm not a big fan of using SMAART to tune a system when you don't REALLY know the ins and outs of the software and how to use it effectively.

Just my .02,
Ira

That's a product of the people using it of course.

I've seen the same things with SMAART, TEF, you name it... folks that know what they are doing get good results from them. But there are way too many folks that think they know what they are doing simply because they bought the software/hardware and read the manuals.

I've seen a guy bring in a $30K TEF rig and spend an afternoon tweaking a system at one theatre I work for. And when he left the system was worse than if you just bypassed the parametric EQs. (this was a while ago with all analog gear...) You couldn't get any gain out of a wireless lav to save your life and that year the theatre ended up having to use headset wireless mics for some actors. I came in and got rid of that nonsense and some how magically we suddenly got good sound (for the gear at hand anyway) and decent gain for the wireless.

And then I also watched (and learned and this is the methods I use to this day) as Rick Southern (who mixed Sinatra, Rat Pack and a lot of those types) EQ'd an entire sound system by talking and making funny sounds into an SM58. He knew exactly what his voice should sound like in a 58 and he could tune the system by just talking. It was very impressive for me at the time. His point to me was... this (the voice on a 58 and/or the other mics and instruments) is what the system is going to be used for right? I said yes. He said: So why not make the sound system sound as good as it can with the same type of material that is going to go through it. It might seem a bit odd, but I've managed to do the same kind of thing the typical tools for what I do. I can pretty much take a wireless lav, go out in the house and talk into it, and use that as tool to know what cuts I need to make in the system. It take a lot of practice and obviously this isn't what you do for a permanent install of a sound system when working with clients as a consultant or the like. But it does work.

[IraSeigel]

...
And then I also watched (and learned and this is the methods I use to this day) as Rick Southern (who mixed Sinatra, Rat Pack and a lot of those types) EQ'd an entire sound system by talking and making funny sounds into an SM58. He knew exactly what his voice should sound like in a 58 and he could tune the system by just talking. It was very impressive for me at the time. His point to me was... this (the voice on a 58 and/or the other mics and instruments) is what the system is going to be used for right? I said yes. He said: So why not make the sound system sound as good as it can with the same type of material that is going to go through it....

Rick and I were doing this in 1982 on Manilow tours - it's not rocket science! (Where IS that old coot these days, anyway?)

Ira