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Thread: Automix plugin?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    St Andrews, Scotland
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    Default Automix plugin?

    Dear all,

    I've had a quick look through the forum and can't find the answer.

    Does anyone know of any automix plugins available? Very handy for drama or multiple mics open for panel shows. Not that I'm lazy, but anything that makes life easier for our volunteers is good!

    Thanks,
    Phil

  2. Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Why use a plugin? Just dial up some gates and comps on the channels.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Quote Originally Posted by 905shmick View Post
    Why use a plugin? Just dial up some gates and comps on the channels.
    Gates and comps are good, but "automix" as applied on a hardware basis in many small PA systems, compares all sources and lets the loudest ones through, which means that each channel influences all others. There is no plugin I know of that can fully implement this.
    Cary B. Cornett
    aka "Puzzler"
    www.chinesepuzzlerecording.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Thanks guys - I thought this was probably the case, but wanted to ask.

    Gates and compressors are fine if you know enough about how to use them, and adjust thresholds accordingly. However, they are not set & forget for inexperienced volunteers...

    Cheers

  5. Default Re: Automix plugin?

    You could always train your volunteers. I cant imagine these guys are doing much mixing if this is the case.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Cleveland, OH
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    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Quote Originally Posted by 905shmick View Post
    You could always train your volunteers. I cant imagine these guys are doing much mixing if this is the case.
    No that's the point of the Automixer. You don't need trained operators.

    I don't find much value in them, but the Dugan has been widely deployed in places where you don't have an op or places where the op has too many things to keep track of or what will happen next is very unpredictable.

    http://www.dandugan.com/index.htm

    I know of no plug ins that do this. If you really needed it, best to just get the real thing and run it as a front end to SAC using the ADAT I/O.

    Of course they are NOT cheap.

    Or just train your board ops to pay attention.

    Having said that, these units are not the same as just having some comps and gates. There is a lot more going on than that.
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Sound
    http://www.rbisound.com
    Email Based User List: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sac_users/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Thanks Richard.
    I've also heard good things about the Dugan unit and other similar ones. I was hoping for something cheaper in software, but I guess that was an overly optimistic wish!

    Cheers for the input

  8. #8

    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    KUI has done some very large conventions and duplicated the Dugan concept in SAC using the Levelizer A and B send buses and the keys and gates on the SAC channels... he told me the results were excellent.

    Bob L

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob L View Post
    KUI has done some very large conventions and duplicated the Dugan concept in SAC using the Levelizer A and B send buses and the keys and gates on the SAC channels... he told me the results were excellent.

    Bob L
    Cool idea! Never thought about using the Levelizer in that fashion.

    Maybe if you ask nice Phil, you can get Steve to share his method. That would certainly be a lot less expensive than an actual Dugan.
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Sound
    http://www.rbisound.com
    Email Based User List: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sac_users/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
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    402

    Default Re: Automix plugin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Day View Post
    Thanks Richard.
    I've also heard good things about the Dugan unit and other similar ones. I was hoping for something cheaper in software, but I guess that was an overly optimistic wish!
    Cheers for the input
    The Lectrosonics AM8 is an 8-channel gain-sharing automixer (i.e. Dugan style). You can use it as a direct passthrough, i.e. run mic inputs to it and run the direct outs into your ADA preamp, as the direct outputs are also post-automix. It's also RS232 and remotable, plus has setup software for it. You can find quite a few of them on ebay from conference room upgrades as digital becomes more sought after. I got a few pairs of AM8/MM8 a few years ago for about $150 (new retail is about $1K *each*).

    The only downside for any automixer for drama use, even good ones, is that unless you can mute the mics pre-automixer, the folks that are offstage and talking backstage will still affect the gain-sharing. You'd either have to use an insert for the automixer to/from that is POST mute, or you'd have to figure something else out. The AM8 does have a remote level control that you can wire up with mute switches for each channel.

    Gates don't work well as drama automixers because in a drama you have different levels of conversation, from a whisper to a shout, which means you're gates would constant have to be reset. The gain-sharing automixer does this internally. If you are in a really tough room for feedback control, and are dealing with amateur cast and amateur tech crews, no matter how "good" they are, and there are scenes with multiple open mics for fast and varied dialog, an automixer can be a HUGE help..."trained" or not.

    It's funny...I've heard quite a bit of "train your operators", "these people don't belong on a board", "volunteers know nothing technical about what their doing so why bother with them" comments here lately, and it's kind of pathetic. Sure, I've seen some goofy stuff here and there, but you know what? I've been to enough "professional" shows in Baltimore from critically acclaimed dinner theaters to professional theaters up to and including "Broadway On Tour" and seen missed mic cues, odd sound mixes, crackling mic wires and even the occasional feedback, so no one is immune to these things whether they're professional or volunteer. The professionals just have access to more expensive and "helpful" gear but it still happens (3 of those mentioned were from "Chicago" at the Hippodrome).

    So how about we lower our noses a bit and try to help our brothers and sisters out there try to improve their performance in our field instead of telling them that this person or that person has no business doing this, huh? Nobody learns everything in one day, and there's a lot of gear out there, SAC included, to specifically help folks do more with less and while they learn along the way.

    /rant

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