DSB-2408 remote controllable preamp.

[Peter O]

DSB-2408 remote controllable preamp.

When I build my sac rig a year ago I made a decision to place the preamps on stage and the PC at foh. I chose to have six ADA8000's for 48 ins / 16 outs using the AppSys ADX-64 adat extender to connect then to the sound card in the PC. Not being able to adjust gains and phantom at the foh position have at times been a problem and I have wanted to get remote controllable preamps for some time.
I have looked at the Aphex 188 but the price of six 188's plus 16 ch DA converter have made me - lets say - hesitate... I live in Europe and all American products get a little more expensive here when shipping and taxes are added.

I had considered buing the AppSys mod for the ADA8000, but that would not give me remote access to phantom power switching, so I didn't think that was quite good enough.

Then a saw i thread here (http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...dsb2408&page=2) where "Wurst Werner" mentioned a product called DSB-2408 (http://www.albert-av.de). A 24 in / 8 out remote controllable preamp with 'build in' adat extender (it has to be used with a box called ASV-4422). I wrote Frank Albert who makes the DSB-2408 and asked for prices and details. Frank Albert answered all my questions and the price for two DSB-2408's and two ASV-4422's turned out to be less than half of what I would have to pay for six Aphex 188's, so I ordered two DSB's and two ASV's.

I received the preamps two weeks ago and I have now used them at five gigs. They sound better than the ADA8000 to my ears and have worked flawlessly.

Frank Albert do not have a VST plugin that can control the DSB, so I have written my own and after correcting a few small bugs the plugin now works very well!

If anyone here is looking for a remote controllable preamp I recommend taking a good look at the DSB. Frank Albert has answered all my questions and have even asked for my approval of layout details and have generally been pleasant to deal with.

I'll be happy to let anyone have a copy of my VST plugin!

Best regards Peter O.

[ssrsound]

That's great!

Questions, since you've gotten your hands on one (and I don't read German):
- what does it control? I'm guessing gain... but how about phantom? a pad?
- Is the remote control only through the MIDI, or some other mechanism?
- Does it send back level meters and clip lights?

How's the networking work? Is it only a single point to point between the stage box and the 4422? Or can you daisy them or run it through a switch? I'm thinking in terms of running an ethernet snake to the stage, and it'd be nice to run only one cable between the two.

Power? Just 220/50, or will it take 110/60 also?

[Wurst Werner]

Excellent choice Peter!
It's true, I reviewed the Albertox (DSB-2408) some months ago-->



It does sound audibly better than a standard ADA8000. At least over my studio monitors the smoother "top end" of the DSB-2408 is obviously there.

Personally I took the plunge with the Appsys gear, because I'm always on a tight budget. To break it down. For the price of one DSB-2408 with an ASV4422 you can buy round about six ADAs with Appsys ADX64 and remote gain controller. That's why I went with the ADAs. Compared to the price tag here in Germany.

On the other the DSB-2408 is still an excellent value for the money! It features the same PGA2500 Micpreamps, that you can find in other HiEnd gear (like in the RME Micstasy!). I believe if you go with a DSB-2408 and SAC you can easily stand up sonically with any digital mixing desk (even the high end stuff).

@Jim: Till Peter jumps in, I will try to answer some of your questions.
It depends how Peter coded his plugin, but the DSB-2408 normally features +48 and PAD separatly for each channel. The gain is controlled over Midi. You need a soundcard with word clock out and a midi device. At least the ASV4422 needs a work clock in from the soundcard. It does not send back any meters, but it corresponds exactly to the SAC meter. You need one CAT5 cable between the ASV442 and the DSB-2408. I'm not sure about the power supply, but I think it is a global switching psu. One nice thing: You can order the DSB-2408 to your need concerning Inputs and Outputs. So you can have versions like: 32/0, 24/8, 16/16 and so on.

Christian

[Peter O]

That's great!

Questions, since you've gotten your hands on one (and I don't read German):
- what does it control? I'm guessing gain... but how about phantom? a pad?
- Is the remote control only through the MIDI, or some other mechanism?
- Does it send back level meters and clip lights?

How's the networking work? Is it only a single point to point between the stage box and the 4422? Or can you daisy them or run it through a switch? I'm thinking in terms of running an ethernet snake to the stage, and it'd be nice to run only one cable between the two.

Power? Just 220/50, or will it take 110/60 also?

Christian have already answered most of the questions but I'll give it shot too:

The DSB allows control of gain, pad, and phantom. My plugin has a dial for gain, and two buttons for pad and phantom.

The remote control is based on Midi. Theres a implementation chart available at www.albert-av.de

The communication is one way, so it doesn't send back meters or anything. If you tap your meters at src in SAC, the sac meters seems to correspond well to actual preamp level. I can't hear any clipping before the clip light in SAC goes on.

The DSB stores it's settings in an EPROM, and powers up in the same state as it had when it was turned off.

You'll need a cat5 (or better) between the DSB and the ASV, you can not run it through a switch or any other network gear (that's no different from all the other adat extenders).
If you have two DSB's and two ASV's you'll need two cat5 cables between them.

Like Christian wrote, you'll need a midi out and a word clock out to be connected to the ASV(s). I use two RME RayDAT soundcards and have added a RME WCM expansion board to add a word clock out to my setup.

I don't know about 110V power, but I can not imagine it's a problem. Write Frank Albert an e-mail (kontakt@albert-av.de) I'm sure he will be happy to answer any question you have.

Best regards Peter O.

[Peter O]

Btw. The DSB's I have are a little different from the one in Christians picture;
They have an AES/EBU output that doubles output 7/8.
The outputs are at the bottem row.
The power plug is at the back and I have chosen a powercon plug instead of the volex used on the DSB in the picture.

/Peter O.

[TomyN]

Hi,

is the unit available with ADAT I/O also?
I can not see any reason to transport all the audio to the FoH and Back..

Tomy

[ssrsound]

Btw. The DSB's I have are a little different from the one in Christians picture;
They have an AES/EBU output that doubles output 7/8.
The outputs are at the bottem row.
The power plug is at the back and I have chosen a powercon plug instead of the volex used on the DSB in the picture.
/Peter O.

The power in the back and outputs on the bottom are two usability changes I was thinking would be good -- glad to hear its possible.

The other is a different case layout for the ASV-4422 to make it useful in a rack. You really want all four ADAT plugs on the back and the ethernet and MIDI on the front... so that you can leave the adat stuff wired in without getting hit by a case front. WC in/out should also both be on the same side -- probably the back with the ADAT.

It's still slightly out of my petty-cash budget (meaning I've got to save up to get it), but between the MIDAS solution and this one it's nice to see some useful remote stagebox solutions becoming available!

[Wurst Werner]

Jim, I think it is not possible, to replace the ADAT connectors and the WordClock to the back of the unit. They are mounted on one circuit. But the ADATs are just splitts of the signals that are running through the XLRs. So there is no need to use them. They are more or less a "monitor splitt".

The new AES/EBU out is awesome, at least for the guys who use a speaker controller with AES/EBU input...or d&b D12 Amps:-)

The big advantage of the DSB2408 and the Appsys Gain Mod in my eyes, is the VST gain plugins. Sure, the Midas snake might be a nice solution, but if I'm correct, you can't trimm the gain directly out of SAC. If you are doing festivals, you will love to store and recall the gains directly out of you Sac mix session.

[ssrsound]

Jim, I think it is not possible, to replace the ADAT connectors and the WordClock to the back of the unit.

It's not the 2408 that I was thinking needed them in a different place -- it's the ASV-4422, which would likely live in a rack with either the computer or with (in my case) a pair of MOTU 2408. What I'd really love is to have two of these in a 1U chassis, with all the ADAT and worldclock ports on the back. That'd make for a nice and clean setup... but I'm not going to ask him for that until I've got the money to buy it. Nice to hear that he's flexible.

VST gain plugins

Having the gains inside of SAC doesn't really seem necessary to me, so long as you have them on the computer screen someplace. The nice thing about the Midas solution is that there's no external boxes at all. You've got the stagebox connected into the PCI card, as opposed to stagebox connected to converter box connected to ADAT card (or in the case of the MOTU, stagebox connected to converter connected to iterface boxes connected to PCI card). That's less components to fail and less wires running around.

All that said, ADAT is a pretty standardized thing... if you end up at ADAT, you're pretty safe for future system upgrades. There's plusses and minuses to both.

[gdougherty]

If I'm hearing you correctly, there are Adat outputs that would allow this to live stageside plugged directly into the host skipping the Adat extender modules.

That could be an option to reduce cost if remote gain is really all that's needed.