OT: small stage monitors

[Doug_Danforth]

Any suggestions or advice on purchasing some small stage monitors? Some of us are on IEM but the singers, guitar players and drummer use wedges. We would like to get some smaller hotspot-type monitors. Our goal is to reduce our stage footprint and volume.

Inexpensive would be good

Thanks,

Doug

[Russell Landwehr]

We would like to get some smaller hotspot-type monitors.
Inexpensive would be good

Thanks,

Doug

Heya, Doug.

You get what you pay for. Back befor IEM's I used a Ross (less expensive) hotspot-type monitor. The band I was in had considerable stage volume. I blew up the speakers in the monitor. After re-loading them with better, nicer speakers they were fine. Check the specs of anything before you buy.

Also, while hotspot-type monitors have good definition, they don't really have any "meat" in the sound. This could be a problem for performers who want a full and robust sound coming from thier monitor.

Are you running SAC? does everyone have their own monitor mix? What kind of band/group is it? (I've seen orchestras using hotspots)

Also, has the drummer considered wearing light-weight, closed (sound-isolating but not noise-cancelling) headphones? It is certainly a less expensive option and my drummer loves it (after I practically begged him to try.)

rl

[rjdrummer]

go to www.mylivewires.com/ check this out. In ears is the way to go. I am a drummer and our stage volume has drop a lot. Also carvin make a very good in ear system I have one and have not had any problems with thier units. I our band uses Cavin wireless hand held & head sets http://www.carvin.com/

Good luck
Rick Jorgensen

[Donnie Frank]

go to www.mylivewires.com/ check this out. In ears is the way to go. I am a drummer and our stage volume has drop a lot. Also carvin make a very good in ear system I have one and have not had any problems with thier units. I our band uses Cavin wireless hand held & head sets http://www.carvin.com/

Good luck
Rick Jorgensen

+1 on the IEM's. I use a cheapo PSM200 in combination with a triple driver Fidelity ear phone. The ending result (for me) is spectacular. But I know that this isn't what Doug is looking for. That said...

Doug,

Lightweight, powerful, cheap...pick 2...<:^) Based on my experience with the QSC K12 and user reviews of the K8, I'm going to recommend the K8. It's not cheap...almost 600 bucks (got my K12 used for $650 delivered), but if it's anything like the K12 (and user reviews would suggest it is), I wouldn't screw around with anything else. Like you, I used a hot spot for years. I honestly hated the thing. More than once I launched it across the room as a completely useless POS.

I'm presently doing a gig this weekend with a band called The Calculators. Earlier in the week the bass player called me in regard to a powered Mackie speaker he was looking at as a bass rig. Wisely, he's decided to dump the traditional amp/4x10 combo and trade it for a pre-amp (that he presently uses) and a wedge. I told him to hold off on the Mackie and that I would let him use my K12. He absolutely loves the thing. He was amazed at the coverage. In his words, "No matter where I stand, I can hear my bass." Translated, coverage is so wide that there are no dead spots. Since the K12 has 2 channels, I ran his monitor channel into the other K12 channel (I know we could just run bass through his monitor channel, but we wanted to see how the K12 would do with zero processing from the console).

I'm so pleased with the K12 that I'm honestly thinking of rethinking my entire sound company P.A. system. I'm also thinking of investing in come K10's or perhaps the lighter K8's.

[Jeff Scott]

I purchased (3) TC Helicon Personal monitors (VSM 300's)a year back. They mount to your mic stand and put out 150 watts of quite hi quality audio. They cut my stage volume from my floor wedge by at least half or more. They give you the ability to add "more of me" independently of the Monitor/aux feed. TC Helicon has discontinued them but you can still get them from various internet suppliers. American Musical Supply has the VSM 200 available

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...-VSM200XT-LIST

[AntonZ]

I don't like the hotspot type monitors, because of their "hotspot" character: there is only one exact location where you can hear them well. Move one step left or right and you hear nothing.

For vocals I'm happy with Bill Fitzmaurice design Wedgehorn 8, home made. Most wedges have a very small area where they sound good. These have wide dispersion: you can still hear everything if you move way over left/right. They are cheap to make. Sound is far from hifi, but responds well to EQ and makes vocals cut through on stage. Vocalists love this wedge. Yeah, it sounds peculiar by itself, but it is not meant to sound good alone. It is designed to get vocalists to hear their own voice and pitch on stage.

Bonus is the design is very efficient, not power hungry. No huge power amps needed for these wedges. If you don't need separate monitor mixes in each wedge, then use 16 ohm drivers and daisy chain four cabs on one 400W amp channel.

[Donnie Frank]

I don't like the hotspot type monitors, because of their "hotspot" character: there is only one exact location where you can hear them well. Move one step left or right and you hear nothing.

For vocals I'm happy with Bill Fitzmaurice design Wedgehorn 8, home made. Most wedges have a very small area where they sound good. These have wide dispersion: you can still hear everything if you move way over left/right. They are cheap to make. Sound is far from hifi, but responds well to EQ and makes vocals cut through on stage. Vocalists love this wedge. Yeah, it sounds peculiar by itself, but it is not meant to sound good alone. It is designed to get vocalists to hear their own voice and pitch on stage.

Bonus is the design is very efficient, not power hungry. No huge power amps needed for these wedges. If you don't need separate monitor mixes in each wedge, then use 16 ohm drivers and daisy chain four cabs on one 400W amp channel.

The QSC K series boasts the same wide coverage. My bass player changed the E.Q. preset on the back of the K12 to "Deep." I can't believe all the bass that thing puts out. I set the front light to show when the speaker was limiting. I told the bass player to really push it. He plays a 5-string, so he's got that low B string. No matter what he did...how he thumped, he couldn't get the limiter to activate. He had it turned up twice as loud as he said he would ever want it and the limiter never kicked in. I'll remind you that he commented on the wide coverage, too. Nothing against the BF speakers, but this thing weighs only 40 lbs. and is self powered. The K8 weighs only 27 lbs. I can't wait to try one of those out.

[Mattseymour]

I've had bad experiences with small hotspot type speakers on stands. They're too easily knocked over and damaged, plus all the associated issues with coverage. Personally I like small wedges. Never heard them but the K8 seems a good fit, although I don't usually like active speakers for monitors.

But the small, compact, nice sounding monitor is the way to go. I'm often surprised at the size of monitors used in small areas, supposedly for bass response, when the sub is sitting on the stage anyway...

IMHO what a wedge sounds like is important. I've never heard a speaker with piezo high end that sounded any good. They're smeary and indistinct, lacking clarity. I've got a set of ancient small Laney wedges that have had the piezo hf replaced with a decent compression driver with cd horn. No meaningful low end from these, but plenty of clarity. improving the clarity meant a significant reduction in volume and far fewer "more me" demands.

[Doug_Danforth]

Heya, Doug.

Are you running SAC? does everyone have their own monitor mix? What kind of band/group is it? (I've seen orchestras using hotspots)

Also, has the drummer considered wearing light-weight, closed (sound-isolating but not noise-cancelling) headphones? It is certainly a less expensive option and my drummer loves it (after I practically begged him to try.)

rl

Thanks to everyone for the comments. We do use SAC and everyone has their own mix. We are an old guy Rock and Roll band (with an excellent young female singer).

I am pretty sure I will never get any of the other folks on IEM or any kind of headphones although the drummer is going to get an electronic set for Christmas (mostly for practice) so he will need some headphones for those when he practices.

Donnie, the QSC series look great but they are out of our price range. We donate almost every penney we make to our cause (the fight against cancer) so it would be hard to justify that expense.

Anton, I have considered building Bill's wedgehorns because we use his DR250s for mains and T39s for subs. I am a little weary of speaker building but it does make economic sense. We absolutely love his other cabs so I have no doubts we'd like those too. I was just hoping that we could get by with the little hotspots for size and volume control.

Jeff, I will take a look at the Helicons. They might be worth trying.

Our group is generally not high maintenance. They use whatever I put in front of them and don't complain. I'm just trying to save my back. We are getting too old to schlep a bunch of heavy gear.

Thanks again for the great advice. This forum is fabulous.

Doug

[airickess]

For a stand-mount monitor I too recommend the TC Helicon VSM200, if you can find them. They work really well, but as mentioned about hotspot monitors, they have a very narrow coverage space so if you have someone that moves around quite a lot they might not be for them.
I agree with Donnie about the QSC K series of powered speakers. They are workhorses and sound very good. If you can afford them, buy them.

You might want to consider asking some of the older guys about IEMs, and maybe even rent a wired pair or two just for rehearsal purposes. If any of the guys like them then that will lower your stage volume and reduce the amount of heavy equipment you carry to each gig.