SAC and AES50 with Midas DL251 or other I/O solutions?

[martiaudio]

First of all I am running a small business in Uk which consists more on my bare services than gears.. but I have the need and and I suppose the fancy to know I can provide great solutions very quickly to anyone providing the sound system hardware ..That is why I am a SAC and SAW user but as you can see from my previous posts unsettled with I/O solutions so far..

Yes I am attracted to AES50 and a MIDAS DL251 I will ignore all Behringer gears for now.

I also had major financial loss recently so I haven't commit to invest yet.

The plan is Lynx AES 16e-50 s and Midas DL251..
Dasbin seems to have a lot of practice with this set up but despite his kind and detailed description and shared experience I still have questions..

I'd like to hear whether this set up works well and smooth by now after latest Lynx and Midas firmware updates? What maximum cat5e length suggested if near 100m causes problems?

I usually work in the finest 5stars hotel ballrooms in London most weekends, and as always they put million Pounds literally in refurbishing those places but nothing good in permanent cabling install..

Suppose I only have one 60m cat5e running across FOH/Stage NO other way and ONE Lynx Card?
- I would only have 24 ins at 48kHz or 96Khz?
- I can run the Midas data on router to one dedicated pc laptop I guess?
- How many output do I get: Only 8? which is a no go because I need more monitor outs!!

Also I see whichever way I look at it I need 2x lynx cards ( one master one slave ) + one MIdas DL251 to run 48i/16o and a big 4ways cat5e ( 2x AES50, 1x Midas Data network ( rather not have a router ) 1x spare )
still with some local I/O possibilities.
A Big budget indeed and some glitches and questions to remain!
I'd like your Views?

I have currently a rayDat 32i/32o @ 48Khz, very solid pcie card arguably better than the only AES50 on the market with lynx to date!!
But digital snake here is a struggle in any ways and form..

Any other solutions without 101 units or various brand and DIY connections? I welcome sensible ideas..

What about Allen & Heath system with Dante and no PCIe cards Nothing at all, could that be Asio/Core audio compatible??

[martiaudio]

I am reading on iDR allen&Heath and all the processor is in the digital snake. Since we don't have the use or the proprietary protocol ACE it is about controlling the Data and the whole ilive console with network/router on a pc, and use a DANTE card on Bport to plug directly into the SAC host. At that point I should be able to control DANTE 64i/64o on SAC I guess.

I can combine the actual allen and heath software console facility and SAC or just like any other pcie card routing I/O.
That give a huge amount of possibilities!!

Anyone with experience doing it??

I am looking at the iDR48, 48i/24o ONE cat5e
The box with DANTE card isn't cheap and comes as the same budget as 2 lynx AES pcie cards and MIDAS DL251
it looks more straight forward approach if it works.

[dasbin]

Dasbin seems to have a lot of practice with this set up but despite his kind and detailed description and shared experience I still have questions..

Well, I don't think anyone else here has any hands-on experience with the DL251 and SAC so I'm not sure who you're asking other than me!

I'd like to hear whether this set up works well and smooth by now after latest Lynx and Midas firmware updates? What maximum cat5e length suggested if near 100m causes problems?

I'm now running 75m without any issues. Make darn sure it is shielded, solid-core cable. Connect the shield at only one end... I chose the DL251 side, because it seemed less likely to have a lot of noise on the ground than a computer system. Although, there is actually a Linux machine inside the DL251, so who knows.

Suppose I only have one 60m cat5e running across FOH/Stage NO other way and ONE Lynx Card?
- I would only have 24 ins at 48kHz or 96Khz?

You would have 32 ins at 48Khz or 24 ins at 96Khz.

- I can run the Midas data on router to one dedicated pc laptop I guess?

If you want to, sure. No need for it, really though. The Midas software is not resource-intensive. I just run it alongside SAC.

- How many output do I get: Only 8? which is a no go because I need more monitor outs!!

No, you get all 16 outs on the first line no matter what.

Also I see whichever way I look at it I need 2x lynx cards ( one master one slave ) + one MIdas DL251 to run 48i/16o and a big 4ways cat5e ( 2x AES50, 1x Midas Data network ( rather not have a router ) 1x spare )
still with some local I/O possibilities.

Yes, this is exactly what I did. Why then are you asking about only one line?


Anyway, at this point, after a great deal of trouble, the Midas and Lynx gear is 100% stable and I am glad to have it (finally). It's SAC itself I still have many issues with.

[martiaudio]

I agree Dasbin you are the only one user. thanks for your reply.
Just for the record and because it is more than invaluable..from which lynx and Midas firmware version the system is stable please?

My example with one cat5e is a real venue restriction..can't run my own at all no matter what ..
that means Midas data wireless, and only one AES50 ..but What amount of I/O finally: 32/16 at 48KHZ really? If yes that is great!

Also that mean I can invest with one card and one MIdas box for now..

As you can see I was exploring the Allen and Heath possibilities with DANTE and a full console in SAC console.. it looks even cleaner but I need to find practical experience feedback though.. Alternatively I could contact Allen& Heath Uk as they seems interested to know about my system and intention when I talked to then about it..

To be honest I'd dream of a Midas system but these lynx card worry me.
thanks again.

I vaguely saw that you experimenting with win8.. Have you tested the lynx-midas AES 50 set with win8 successfully?
cheers

[sebastiandybing]

I use a madi setup, with a RME hdspe madi card 64/64 in/out
it has both the optical madi i/o up to 1000meter and coxial via BNC
up to 100 meters.
I use it together with Rme micstacys with madi option.
But I do also have a rme madi to adat and adat to madi converter
with 8 adat i/o ports for 64 adat ch. model 648 I think.
In your case you could use a
madi pcie card and one madi-adat-madi converter on stage
with midas 8 ch micpre with adat for inputs and a rme ma16 or 32 da
line out da converter using just 2 units.

Sebastian

[Butch Bos]

Seems like a lot of money and work when you can just leave host on stage and use a remote to mix
Every time I work that type of room they are very happy that FOH is only a laptop and not a full rack and mixer

Butch

[Butch Bos]

So what scares you about running from a remote ?
I have probably ran 400 + shows that way with NO problems (using cat5 not wireless)
Wifi can be a bit of a problem but I have also ran that way from time to time when I could not use a cable.

Butch

[dasbin]

If you want to add local I/O to the mix, you can do what I did. Lynx sells an LS-ADAT daughterboard that plugs into one of the AES50 cards (internally) and gives you 16/16 ADAT i/o (48khz) or 8/8 (96Khz)

Have to be careful how you want to patch this though, as it will eat into the 32 available channels on the AES50 card. (Just as any AES/EBU solution would, too).

[dasbin]

Midas says 24 split no matter what...so 24/16, 24/00 whether it is 48 or 96Khz.. so at least we have 24/16 on one AES50..and just the remaining inputs on the second one!!

This is confusing to me, because I swear my inputs weren't showing up like that at 48Khz. I suspect, though, that the firmware I'm using (not sure of the version number) is a one-off, so maybe they're shipping something different now.

AND the Lynx card says 32/32 AES50 + 16/16local total 48 @ 48Khz
-------------------------------24/24 AES50 + 16/16local total 40 @ 96Khz
Could you break it down for me than if I am missing something..

They don't say this; you're misinterpreting. Each Lynx card is capable of processing 32 ins and 32 outs, full stop. It's a 32-channel card. Where you get a choice is where each of those channels comes from. You can assign them from anywhere. So all 32 could be from AES50, or 24 from AES50 and 8 from ADAT, etc.
Let me put it this way. Each Lynx card will always give you exactly 32 ASIO streams. There is no way of increasing this number.

I know I can get ADAT local but I can't see the point when there is AES/EBU at disposal.. I can wait and buy a Mamba 16/16 or a second hand Apogee rosetta 8/8 all AES/EBU..
or the new API 500 style with Millennia converter also.

Well, I made the choice of ADAT because I know there are a hundred cheap 8-channel converter packs out there to choose from with mic pres built in. I didn't need anything fancy/expensive at FOH but I did need mic pres.

[martiaudio]

thanks Dasbin..

If I have one lynx and a Midas..
how many i and o do I get @ 48Khz
and @ 96Khz
?
Same question with 2 lynx cards
?
Because I thought it was 24/16 and 24/0
?
you use this set up so you know best.. whilst Jim wasn't able to make that clear to me except that the split is 24 no matter what on the Midas?!?

I see your point with adat and you are right but to my mind it is yet an other card on the computer and if I put 2 lynx card I don't spare slot.
( My desktop is sff HP and the 2xpcies 4 slots are external in a chassis-enclosure attached to the desktop. )