SAC and In ears

[Haysus]

I'm looking for some insight and advice for running in ears. The band is complaining about the mix.

I have a regular band gig (wifes band) that has a few people on wedges and a few on in ears. I'll do my best do describe the setup.

Drummer has in ears and is most recent to join the revolution. She asks for minor tweaks and is content 90% of the time. When she complains it is about a static sound followed by a brief audio drop.

Bass has 1 wedge and is running D.I.. No backline. No problems.

Guitar/vox/key. In ears. Has most everything in the mix plus a sm58 ambient feet away from his cabinet. Complains it sounds crowded and sound get squashed when full band is going. He has hearing loss in the top end of the spectrum. Also feels disconnected from the room.

Vox/accoustic/keys. In ears and wedge. Mostly uses 1 ear. Wedge mix is shared. Ears has everything in the mix. Complains it sounds crowded and sound get squashed when full band is going. Distorts when turned up.

Vox/sax/keys. Wedge. Content.

All vox mics are Audix OM5's


Everyone has their own mixer, with the exception of the one shared wedge. Mixers set to post fade master mixer. Master mix gain is @ 0 source post attenuater. All faders on master set to 0 or unity. Verified signals.

Gain structure:
All ADA in puts set to 9 o'clock position. Master mix settings above.
Typical mixer sound check consists of individual and main fader set to unity. Bring up gain until talent is happy. For vox usually +10db. All mixes are mono.

Now I am seeing clip when driven at war volumes which leads to compression and distortion but the talent wants more volume.


I am working blind as not having in ears myself. A huge benefit of SAC is I keep the same settings of the last show in the same venue.

Any advice welcome for someone about ready to lose his mind.
Thanks

[Jeff Scott]

Are the IEM's wireless or wired? if wired...How are the IEM's being amplified? Are you running directly out of the back of the ADA Preamps or is the monitor signal from SAC being fed to a small mixer which then amplifies the signal for the IEM?

[Haysus]

All are wireless. Xlr from back of ADA to reciever.

[Bob L]

Not sure why the monitor mixers are not tapped at Pst EQ or just PRE fader... why pst... PRE tap would allow them to set their mix without it changing as you make changes in FOH.

Also... for in-ears... if they are capable of stereo, definitely consider using it to pan other instruments to the sides leaving the artist in the middle... helps with the crowded complaint.

Bob L

[Haysus]

To clarify the Post fader.

My Mon 1 master is source post attenuater. My FOH does not affect my monitor mixers.
Mon1 is the master so if all want a volume or eq tweak I change all mon mixers at once. This is helpful for the guest artist or backing track that may need to be in all Mon for a short time with little or no warning. All other adjustments are made on the individual monitors.

I haven't tried tapping it any other way yet but I'm open to suggestions.

[glass50]

I have two bands that use wireless ears. The whole point with them is to keep stage volume down. No monitor speakers and no guitar amps. Sure get a nice clean house mix without TOO loud stage monitors and Guitar amps. Most use one ear only. Each performer gets a monitor mix. I usually walk my note book among band members letting each build their own mix during sound check. Each has their own master volume on their receiver pack. My SAC rig is setup with monitor L channel patched to wedges through amps. If both wedge and ears needed, ears comes from R channel.

[Mattseymour]

Without more information on what the wireless iem system is, or the phones being used, I'd suggest looking at the quality of the earphones themselves.

Then consider what's in everyone's mix, is there too much low end that could be leading to distortion? Clipping and the talk of compression makes me think you're overdriving the iem transmitter or the receiver packs are being pushed too hard to drive the phones.

Are you not in a position to listen to each mix and make any decisions about it?

Dave Rat has a good iem compression technique, which is easy to implement on sac, where everything except the 'mix owner' is compressed slightly. So for each mix you would route everything except their mic/instrument to mixer output 9 and set this up as a standard group (ie routed to master1) and stick a compressor across it. Their own channel(s) would be routed straight to 1. Keep it subtle and it means they get more of themselves when the volume increases but not quite so much more of everyone else.

What's the sm58 for? If it's band talkback then maybe gate it....

[Yogi]

With wireless IEM you can get the feed to the transmitter too high and cause compression and limiting. I fight this battle all the time. Turn down the input to the transmitter and have the talent turn up their receivers. If you're not in the red on the transmitter and they don't have enough volume in their in ears its because the stage is too darned loud!

[Andy Hamm]

All kinds of good advice so far. I have in ears that I own and bands that I work for use. I make them responsible for their own ear buds as I'm not shelling out $300 per set to give to a musician who will loose them or whatever - also who wants to shove something in their ear that just came out of someone elses....

I supply cheap, $15 earbuds to each musician I deal with once, if they don't have their own. What really matters is the impedance of the ear buds. It can vary widely from one brand to the next, and for optimum volume it needs to be matched to the reciever. It is probably safe to say that if they are using the ear buds that came with the system, then they should be OK in that department.

Also, depending on the brand of IEMs you have, they may have compression built in to either the transmitter, the reciever or both. Low end IEMs tend to compress fairly early, where as the higher quality units have a much wider dynamic range.

I don't see you mention what type of IEMs you are using, you mention mics but not the IEMs - unless I have missed it. If you are using a lower prices set of IEM's like the Nady system, you can open them up and turn off the internal compression in some cases.

I use the Galaxy AS900's which are cheap, fixed frequency units but they seem OK. When I deal with players that have used better units, they can tell the difference, but they say that they are pass-able. Players that aren't used to them don't seem to know any better and they work fine for them as well. I use 16 ohm headphones for these units and the volume is respectable.

I also EQ my IEMs, I don't go crazy, but I I use a HPF and sometimes give them a little love at 125Hz, add a little shazizzle in the top end or set up a LPF to stop the really high stuff from making their heads explode.

The other thing to consider is with singers, they will hear their head voice louder as well while wearing them, the same way as if they were wearing ear plugs.

[Haysus]

The in ears consist of Shure Psm200 with the E535 triple driver non molded buds. 2 Carvin receivers 1 with stock dual drivers the other with custom molded E535's.

I am looking for something cheap for myself to monitor and understand what the complaints are as they happen but the war office won't let $400 go to make whiney people happy.