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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    3,493

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    Yes over FW,
    but the plugs I use are must there's no compromise... and that can't offer any console out there, right now.
    Also I hope that before we move to any other system, Bob will do some programming and upgrade SAC for multicore use, plus do some support for some of the products out there to ease up our pain over converters and preamps.

    Also...As I know musicians, they don't bother mixing their own monitors,they just want to come and play.I'm talking here about musicians that play in front of 10.000 - 100.000 people. They pay us to deliver the mix.And if the mix is done / assuming the band is using only IEM / there will be no changes throughout the tour.Or if they need some fixing ,we can always take the recorded concert / mix up in the hotel room and set up a 2.1 sys and listen back the concert, tweek some things and do some polishing with the monitoring.

    My costumers and the 90% of the world work in DAW's They or somebody else create's their music in ProTools,Nuendo,Logic.... and they wan't the sound to be as close as possible the music on the CD.Beside arenas,they also play large fancy expensive clubs and they want the sound to be as processed as the music that the DJ plays in between the sets.They want it to be like a mastered CD.You have no headroom here to play with...not even a half of a dB...
    So,If you tell me that you can pull this off with a single x32,Soundcraft,or any other board out there I'll b..w you

    As I can see, you are doing theatrical act's and not live concerts - bands, right? For your needs the x32,or whatever other console can do the job and u will eventually be happy with it, not having to think about the load or the drop outs.But for my kind of a job, beside SAC, I can't find any other system that can offer this much as SAC does.Not under 100.000eur and a bunch of racks,cables and sh...

    So,for now, I just wish Bob would talk to Matthias and do some more programming, so that we could all even more enjoy in his fabulous SAC

    Where did I say that I think you should ditch SAC and get one of these instead? I didn't. Nor did I say I was going to run out and get one either. No I don't think "the game", whatever the hell that is? is Over.

    Take a chill pill man... I was just pointing out a fact.

    As for not being able to serve up the needs of your clients with anything other than SAC, sorry I have to cry BS on that one. It might be easier, you may prefer SAC. Nothing wrong with that! You might not be able to afford the other options but they are out there. A Digidesign desk might be an option. I don't know. I don't really care to be honest. I'll trust you can do your own homework and pick what console is right for you. If SAC is it... awesome!

    As for emulating what the albums sound like, I'm pretty sure big acts have done this for years even before we had many digital mixing consoles in sound reinforcement, long before we even had plug-ins. I'm sure there are plenty of folk out there with various options from Waves and others that can host plug ins that you just insert into the console of your choice. Run any plug-in you like... on any desk you like... Magic!

    As for "Bob's fabulous SAC"... sorry bad choice of words for a gutter mind like mine. Like Bob's software, he can keep his SAC to himself... thanks..
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Sound
    http://www.rbisound.com
    Email Based User List: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sac_users/

  2. #22

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    I've just chosen sac over the x32 for many reasons. These new offerings wouldn't have changed that decision for reasons of flexibility, but an sac system vs soundcraft is a very different proposition from Behringer.

  3. Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    My costumers and the 90% of the world work in DAW's They or somebody else create's their music in ProTools,Nuendo,Logic.... and they wan't the sound to be as close as possible the music on the CD.Beside arenas,they also play large fancy expensive clubs and they want the sound to be as processed as the music that the DJ plays in between the sets.They want it to be like a mastered CD.You have no headroom here to play with...not even a half of a dB...
    You have no idea what you are talking about.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    I think u should buy it and have fun,stop using SAC cause it's GAME OVER for you
    I think you should not think to tell me what to do, ever!
    Then... I just want to tell this forum that some manifacturers are going to sell more powerful, little, light and without phisical controls mixers.
    These remind me the lovely Sac philosophy. If this market factor is a fortune for general customers, it will demonstrate the right Sac vision from the past, too.
    The problem: how to defend Sac vision from other brands? Bob?

  5. #25

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post
    Where did I say that I think you should ditch SAC and get one of these instead? I didn't. Nor did I say I was going to run out and get one either. No I don't think "the game", whatever the hell that is? is Over.

    Take a chill pill man... I was just pointing out a fact.

    As for not being able to serve up the needs of your clients with anything other than SAC, sorry I have to cry BS on that one. It might be easier, you may prefer SAC. Nothing wrong with that! You might not be able to afford the other options but they are out there. A Digidesign desk might be an option. I don't know. I don't really care to be honest. I'll trust you can do your own homework and pick what console is right for you. If SAC is it... awesome!

    As for emulating what the albums sound like, I'm pretty sure big acts have done this for years even before we had many digital mixing consoles in sound reinforcement, long before we even had plug-ins. I'm sure there are plenty of folk out there with various options from Waves and others that can host plug ins that you just insert into the console of your choice. Run any plug-in you like... on any desk you like... Magic!

    As for "Bob's fabulous SAC"... sorry bad choice of words for a gutter mind like mine. Like Bob's software, he can keep his SAC to himself... thanks..
    Hahaha....come on... don't get so pissed off....

    Anyway, no Digidesign could fit in there where I was mixing this show.In this club we had only 1x1m space to squeez in the mixer. So we did used SAC and it was fun!Also, the company's, that we work with.... well, they have 2 Digidesign Profile's, Midas Legend 3000, Midas XL4 that was last used for Garry Moore , Midas Verona, Digico DS00, 2x Yamaha PM5D's , Yamaha PM4000, Soundcraft Vi6 and a Macky TT24 .So, we cold have picked any of thsese consoles to mix the show but, where would you put them?

  6. #26

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio_Labs View Post
    The problem: how to defend Sac vision from other brands? Bob?
    Very easy.
    1) Make sure SAC *AND THE SYSTEM IT RUNS ON* is robust. People are afraid of running their live audio on a PC. Whether or not this fear is justified, the fear exists. Need some way of counteracting this fear (perhaps education? I don't know).
    2) Six words: control surfaces, control surfaces, control surfaces. The SAC Religious may think that virtual mixing is the "cat's meow" and might delude themselves into thinking this is the wave of the future; it's not. Until SAC has viable control surface support (comparable to decent boards in the price range Bob always compares SAC against), there won't be a whole lot of sound engineers out there that will ever consider SAC. Yes, DAWs went virtual; but you don't need real-time response in your workflow for DAWs as much as you need this for LAWs. Physical control surfaces (not touchscreens, multitouch or otherwise) are essential to defend SAC from these $2,000-$10,000 "brands" that are now appearing.

    SAC does some really neat things. I'd miss a boatload of features if I had to give up SAC tomorrow and go with something like an X32, GLD, Si Expression, iLive, or Midas Pro. However, once we're talking about 48 channels under $10,000 with a decent control surface, I'd seriously considering giving up SAC or delegating it to monitor world.
    Cheers,
    Randy Hyde
    -------------------
    For the interested, SAC setup here: http://www.plantation-productions.co.../SACSetup.html
    Plantation Productions:http://www.plantation-productions.com

  7. #27

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Old habits die hard huh....

    Once you let go of the desire and physchological crutch of thinking you need a control surface... virtual mixing becomes a reality... the tool has been given to you... you just need to embrace it.

    And... as soon as the rest of the industry starts enjoying their little ipad apps with every other console these days... it won't be too long before they all wonder exactly why it is they are still humping that big control surface in and out of each venue.

    Then, perhaps when they get done playing with their toy ipad app, they will begin to embrace a real virtual mixing interface designed to work as the main mixing interface instead of as an add-on to a physical one.

    It is quite funny to watch from this side of the fence.

    Bob L

  8. #28

    Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Hi Bob,yeah...it is really funny
    I know that we don't really need the control surface, but the guys who have got used to faders and knobs just cant figure out the way to run shows fast enough, that I understand and I feel for them.I would feel the same if I'd never worked in the studio before?

    My only complain is the multi-touch support for other devices than 3M
    Please, can this be done, so we could use any MT monitor out there and finally get rid of controllers ?
    Last edited by operationwhat; 01-26-2013 at 04:03 AM.

  9. Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob L View Post
    Old habits die hard huh....

    Once you let go of the desire and physchological crutch of thinking you need a control surface... virtual mixing becomes a reality... the tool has been given to you... you just need to embrace it.

    And... as soon as the rest of the industry starts enjoying their little ipad apps with every other console these days... it won't be too long before they all wonder exactly why it is they are still humping that big control surface in and out of each venue.

    Then, perhaps when they get done playing with their toy ipad app, they will begin to embrace a real virtual mixing interface designed to work as the main mixing interface instead of as an add-on to a physical one.

    It is quite funny to watch from this side of the fence.

    Bob L
    One major difference though. The iPad is a true multi touch device and every mfgr with an ipad app for their console provides multi touch control and an optimized interface designed for the iPad. SAC Remote running on a tablet is not really up to the task in comparison.

    I don't quite think you have it right with your "they're all doing it wrong, wait till they see what I'm doing is the right way" point of view.

  10. Default Re: Is the Game Over?

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    Hi Bob,yeah...it is really funny
    I know that we don't really need the control surface, but the guys who have got used to faders and knobs just cant figure out the way to run shows fast enough, that I understand and I feel for them.I would feel the same if I'd never worked in the studio before?

    My only complain is the multi-touch support for other devices than 3M
    Please, can this be done, so we could use any MT monitor out there and finally get rid of controllers ?
    You feel for people who are used to controlling multiple things at once by using both of their thanks to mix, that are now limited to using just one?

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