wpd Oddness

[AlanH]

Hi Folks,

Just had an odd problem with wave peak data...

I use Cue Sheet Generator (JMS Audioware) for producing CDs as a matter of course now.

This evening I needed to re-edit a single CD out of a couple of whole-CD .wav files I had produced via CSG a week ago. I put them in the mutitrack and edited them to make the new CD (cuts & softedges - no amplitude or EQ changes).

As a sanity check to weed out silly errors in the process, I'm in the habit of placing the newly-generated full-CD .wav file back into the MT on a new track, to see if its its peak data envelope looks consistent with the source files.

This time, I was concerned to find that the envelope of the newly CSG-generated .wav file looked lower-amplitude (by a few dB) than that of the original source .wav files. But when I compared them in solo mode, they didn't sound any different.

After a tense few minutes looking for nudged faders, spurious automation entries or plugins etc., I opened and refreshed both of the original CSG-generated full-disc .wav files, and lo and behold, their peak data envelopes then visually matched that of the derived .wav file. (Sigh of relief at this point!)

CSG does not itself generate .wpd files, so the ones with my original full-CD files will have been generated during the same sanity-check import into SAW at the time I made them.

So my question is: has anyone noticed spuriously 'hot' .wpd files being generated via SAW before?

Cheers,

Alan

(SAWStudio 5.1 & CSG 1.9.1 - the latest as far as I can tell)

[Bob L]

Be careful with changing wav file data and not updating the peak data files... and if you import or replace wav files that have the same existing name as before, the peak data files will happily find the old ones of the same name... so... delete them and make new ones or use a different folder when altering files outside the SAW environment.

Bob L

[AlanH]

Thanks, Bob!

Maybe I had rendered the original .cue/.wav sets more than once (I can't remember now - it was a late night/early morning session). SAW would have latched onto the original .wpd files when I imported the re-rendered set (which may have been less hot).

I suppose I could ask Jon Marshall Smith to have an option in CSG to create new .wpd files as part of the cuesheet dataset (if the algorithm for .wpd extraction is available) - even though they're not required for subsequent CD burning.

Cheers,

Alan

[Dave Labrecque]

Thanks, Bob!

Maybe I had rendered the original .cue/.wav sets more than once (I can't remember now - it was a late night/early morning session). SAW would have latched onto the original .wpd files when I imported the re-rendered set (which may have been less hot).

I suppose I could ask Jon Marshall Smith to have an option in CSG to create new .wpd files as part of the cuesheet dataset (if the algorithm for .wpd extraction is available) - even though they're not required for subsequent CD burning.

Cheers,

Alan

Alan -- the cuesheet data set is simply the cue sheet data. WPD's are derived from WAV data, not pointer and text type data like in cue sheets.

[AlanH]

Thanks, Dave, I know that. The algorithm I was alluding to is the one for generating .wpd from .wav.

"Cuesheet dataset" should strictly refer to the .cue file plus its referenced .wav file(s) - neither element being any use on its own.

I chose to use the phrase "cuesheet dataset", in my original post, in a looser sense of "things generated by CSG". That was sloppy - sorry. I should have said "in addition to the cuesheet dataset" to avoid confusion.

The point is, I would still appreciate the option (need not be a default) to have a .wpd file (or files if the "multiple wave files" option is set) generated (or refreshed) automatically as part of the process, to support potential subsequent SAW operations on the CSG-generated .wav file(s).


Cheers,

Alan

[Dave Labrecque]

Thanks, Dave, I know that. The algorithm I was alluding to is the one for generating .wpd from .wav.

"Cuesheet dataset" should strictly refer to the .cue file plus its referenced .wav file(s) - neither element being any use on its own.

I chose to use the phrase "cuesheet dataset", in my original post, in a looser sense of "things generated by CSG". That was sloppy - sorry. I should have said "in addition to the cuesheet dataset" to avoid confusion.

The point is, I would still appreciate the option (need not be a default) to have a .wpd file (or files if the "multiple wave files" option is set) generated (or refreshed) automatically as part of the process, to support potential subsequent SAW operations on the CSG-generated .wav file(s).


Cheers,

Alan

Gotcha. Insofar as CSG is intended to burn CD's and nothing else, I imagine JMS would consider such a request beyond the scope of the plug's intended function. I could be wrong. However, I think similar desires (for CSG to do more in the interest of expanded functionality) are what brought about BFG (Batch File Generator), another SAW plug-in of his that I find very useful. BFG has the WPD generating option, BTW. Are you familiar with BFG?

You know that it's pretty easy to build WPD's in SAW, right? In fact, it happens automatically in many cases.

[AlanH]

In fact, it was a need to create multiple files that switched me on to BFG in the first place. I bought CSG at the same time out of completeness, even though I wasn't sure I needed it then.

CSG is certainly the biz, and I'll be using it as long as CDs still exist as a commercial medium (maybe we ought to take bets on that one).

It's easy to update .WPDs via SAW, but you have to remember to ask for them!

The problem I had - and I know it's my own inattentiveness - is that if you tweak a few things on a mix and re-render it through CSG a second time, the output WAV file has the same name and is the same length as the file from the first render. If you open it up in SAW, SAW doesn't see any need to create a new .WPD file as it's already got one with the right name and size...

Anyway, I've learned my lesson now!

Cheers,

Alan

[Bob L]

Just delete the wpd files if you do re-render outside of the SAW environment... SAW should then automatically create new wpd files.

Or, use the File View and select all files and re-create the peak data files with oneclick.

Bob L

[brettbrandon]

Even in Adobe Audition among others, when I edit the wave file in another program and reopen in Audition, it realizes it has been changed and creates a new peak file. That's how it should be done, not by deleting the current peak file........