Consulting/Training church gig...need help...

[Donnie Frank]

Making money is good. It allows us to buy food and continue living. We decide when to give our time and knowledge and when to sell it.

Bingo.

[Donnie Frank]

Hey doods,

I just curious... What is so profoundly different about "house of worship" mixing that it rates its own books from Yamaha??? I obviously don't have the books and I *could* Google it (and probably will), but I respect the opinions in this forum more than those of the general public. To me it's just another room...just another gig. Making the spoken word heard is important to me at ALL shows. If the lead singer talks between songs - and they usually do - I just turn off the FX and raise the fader a bit. Isn't this just SOP at ALL shows???? Keeping the volume down to a dull roar is another priority. But again, I try to do this at ALL shows.

[Frank DeWitt]

I don't think church sound is much different. it is just that it is a huge market so it was worth aiming a book at it.

It is the most important sound you will ever mix but that's contact, not technical.

Re the EQ. I teach my guys to use it very sparingly and only after first walking up front at practice and listening to what the person or instrument really sounds like. Then if it isn't the same in the room, move the mic, then use a different mic, then move it again, then think about EQ. If we EQ a singer to make them sound different then real we ask them first.

There are some tricks to involving the congergation but nothing fancy, just giving them a good lead, and enough volume that they can hear and not so much that they can't hear them selves.

[Brent Evans]

Donnie, on the older presonus boards, there is no network port so you have to have a computer connected to the board to give it network access, then you use an iPad app to control the presonus interface software on the computer, which in turn controls the console.

It's rather clunky, but it works. They fixed it in the latest versions of the consoles (the AI series) by putting a network port on on the console. Duh.

[Donnie Frank]

Donnie, on the older presonus boards, there is no network port so you have to have a computer connected to the board to give it network access, then you use an iPad app to control the presonus interface software on the computer, which in turn controls the console.

It's rather clunky, but it works. They fixed it in the latest versions of the consoles (the AI series) by putting a network port on on the console. Duh.

Ahhh...this console just had an Apple laptop hooked up to it. I'll ask them next week if they have an iPad. Thanx for the heads up.

[Donnie Frank]

I don't think church sound is much different. it is just that it is a huge market so it was worth aiming a book at it.

Bingo. You took the thoughts right out of my head.

It is the most important sound you will ever mix but that's contact, not technical.

Re the EQ. I teach my guys to use it very sparingly and only after first walking up front at practice and listening to what the person or instrument really sounds like.

This can be really, really tough. I mixed a bass player a couple years ago whose bass sounded like a series of clicks...like the string being tapped on the pickup. So I walked up to the stage and he had a hollow-body hooked to an Ampeg mini stack...I think 2, 12's??? ALL the high end was rolled off. So I thought, "Okay....I'll just mic it." So I mic'ed it, and STILL got that clickity clackity sound...horrible!! So I emulated his E.Q. in the mains. I was using SAC, so I low-passed down to like 800Hz (yeah, you read that right). And that was the key. Still sounded like crap, but at least I got rid of that damn clickety-clackety sound.

That said, I don't E.Q. anything unless it feeds back or sounds offensive. If it *does* sound offensive, I entertain the possibility that the full-range P.A. may be producing more bandwidth than the guitar player desires. So I do exactly like you do, and walk up to the stage and listen. Sometimes I can't believe the crap these guys call tone. After years of trying I have concluded that there is simply no fix for this.

Then if it isn't the same in the room, move the mic, then use a different mic, then move it again, then think about EQ. If we EQ a singer to make them sound different then real we ask them first.

My personal goals have been to make a vocalist heard and understood. Sometimes the sound pressure of a rock band negates the ability to allow "warmth" into the vocals. A guy asked me once, "Which vocal mic do you like better? The Shure SM-58 or the Sennheiser e845?" I replied, "Whichever one has better feedback rejection."

There are some tricks to involving the congergation but nothing fancy, just giving them a good lead, and enough volume that they can hear and not so much that they can't hear them selves.

Right. This is my mixing paradigm no matter what kind of show I'm doing. I can't stand not hearing vocals. I guess it's a pet peeve.

[LarryBfaderJockey]

Hey doods,

I just curious... What is so profoundly different about "house of worship" mixing that it rates its own books from Yamaha??? I obviously don't have the books and I *could* Google it (and probably will), but I respect the opinions in this forum more than those of the general public. To me it's just another room...just another gig. Making the spoken word heard is important to me at ALL shows. If the lead singer talks between songs - and they usually do - I just turn off the FX and raise the fader a bit. Isn't this just SOP at ALL shows???? Keeping the volume down to a dull roar is another priority. But again, I try to do this at ALL shows.

The books are not directed at mixing, but rather are books that cover the basics of many aspects of audio. The purple book is about 200 pages and is written in a style that is fairly easy to understand. The black book is about 400 pages and covers things in more depth with theory and math. If you are going to be working with churches I suggest at least getting the purple book.
Something to remember. It is the wise man who knows what he does not know.

Larry B

[Donnie Frank]

I laughed out loud watching this. So THIS is the secret "inside scoop" to Church mixing...funny... I give the guy credit for producing a multi-camera presentation. But for some reason he cracked me up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLVdTyNMpto

[Butch Bos]

While you were laughing he had a very good mix going
I wish I had the same quality singers and band at some of the local churches I have worked at

Butch

[Donnie Frank]

While you were laughing he had a very good mix going
I wish I had the same quality singers and band at some of the local churches I have worked at

Butch

Indeed he did. But yeah...he's got it pretty easy with that band.

I've got 4 girls...singing unison...spread throughout the stage...sharing a single monitor mix....complaining that they can't hear each other and/or themselves. I'm going to have to talk this church into a second, third and fourth monitor mix. Now THAT is a "church challenge." Generally speaking, a line of singing females don't sing in unison....at least not in the pond I've been swimming in...<:^0