Monitors of FOH with minimal Sound Check?

[Jeff Scott]

Starting to get a few more gigs that are taking place in a working Sports Bar / Restaurant. type setups. They frown on a lot of "Noise" outside of the actual gig so you've got 1 or 2 songs max. in which to sound check the band.

In those situations...what do you focus on....getting the monitors set up or getting the FOH sounding great?

I find it's tough to be concentrating on watching the band while I'm trying to dial in the House sound.

Do you do a quick balance of the FOH so it doesn't sound too out of wack and then concentrate on getting the Guys monitors set up?

Or do you shut down the Front End to minimize the noise in the room and work with the guys on their Monitor mixes?

I've got a Tablet so moving around the room is not an issue.

How do you guys handle this type of situation?

[IraSeigel]

shut down the Front End to minimize the noise in the room and work with the guys on their Monitor mixes. Once they start, you can't really communicate or fix stuff easily.

To start the show, you only need to have vocals up at first in the house.

IMO.

[mojogil]

I agree with Ira. Line check everything so you know you have everything working and plugged in correctly, and then set the monitors. The more you do it the less patients you'll have for the monitor diva's (I need more snare drum in my wedge). After that I'll do a very quick FOH check mostly to get gains, rough comp/gate, and rough eq, mostly focusing on the vocals and kick drum. Depending on the band the foh part can be as quick as two or three minutes.
Done, now grab a beer.

[Butch Bos]

Same with me get the gains correct and set monitors
Then to start the show just bring up vocals and kick and then add what you can't hear

Butch

[Doug_Danforth]

I like to do the monitors first as well. Nothing pisses the band off more than to be told to wait to get their monitor fixed until you get FOH sorted out.

[Peter O]

I almost never do monitor mixes in small venues with the front shut down. The musicians will often hear a lot of low end from the PA and if I do their monitor mixes with the PA off, they'll often ask for way more low end in the wedges than they want when the PA is on (IEM mixes is another story).

I usually try to very quickly get a half decent mix up in the PA, and then I turn my focus to the musicians and their monitors.
Mixing monitors on a remote on stage right next to the musician who's mix I'm doing is key to getting the job done fast in my experience.

Another thing to consider: If you do two song without the PA, both the audience who is already in the room and client/owner/staff at the venue might get worried and think the band is no good, because the sound in the room is off and they can't hear any vocals!

[RBIngraham]

I'm with Peter, in tiny venues half of what the band is going to hear is the house and also slapback and room interaction. Setting monitors with the mains muted just sets you up for surprises on stage when you do turn them on. If start with gains well balanced you can just get a rough house mix pretty quick, then tweak monitors. If its a band you know well you should have some rough idea of what to do with monitors before you even start, so dial something in before you start, then slowly bring up the levels so no one's head is taken off. Then I would tweak the monitors. Maybe if they hear the house from the start they won't crank up themselves and the monitors so perhaps you get to actually mix the house, rather than just a voice amplifier.

[Donnie Frank]

Starting to get a few more gigs that are taking place in a working Sports Bar / Restaurant. type setups. They frown on a lot of "Noise" outside of the actual gig so you've got 1 or 2 songs max. in which to sound check the band.

In those situations...what do you focus on....getting the monitors set up or getting the FOH sounding great?

Wedding gigs are the worst. I was admonished because my GF was tapping mic's with her finger...this with an 11-piece band on their way. 6 wedges mixed from FOH, and I couldn't make a sound. I ended up using the cans for the line check and using hand signals for my GF to tap the mic's. But I digress....

For Rock bands it's a bit easier. As stated already, line check everything. If I can't make any noise I'll usually set up stock monitor mixes to at least get those mixes close enough that the band can muddle through the first song. All vocalists get their vocal in their wedge. Then peripheral vocals around 50-60%. If it's a drummer wedge I'll throw some bass guitar in there. If there's a keyboard player, I'll usually give the drummer and the guy on the opposite side of the stage some of that, too. It's kind of common sense to look around the stage and predict who isn't going to hear whom. I have my bands side-fill their amps so I usually don't have to run guitars or bass in the wedges....which makes getting monitors mixed very easy. Once they do their first song (usually enough time to get a good FOH mix), THEN I'll ask through my Talkback mic what they need. If I think I have time, I'll go to the front of the stage with my tablet. It all depends.

If we're given the luxury of a sound check, but the hosting venue wants it "quick," I'll go up on stage with my tablet and get each musician in the ball park. Then I tell them to play just the chorus of a song they all sing on and loop it. While they're looping I communicate with each musician to get what they need. I can usually get 4 monitor mixes 90% there in about 2 minutes. Depending on the situation, I usually leave the mains off, but I might leave the subs on so the drummer doesn't ask for more bottom in his wedge. I run a subwoofer console, so this is really easy to do in SAC.

I find it's tough to be concentrating on watching the band while I'm trying to dial in the House sound.

Just communicate with the band. Tell them you'll need the first song to get a quick mix and then you'll address their monitor issues. If the place is pissy, I'll do one musician between the 1st and 2nd song. Then the next guy between the 2nd and 3rd song and on and on.

Do you do a quick balance of the FOH so it doesn't sound too out of wack and then concentrate on getting the Guys monitors set up?

Yes. But if the line checks are fairly accurate, I can get a passable mix in one song.

Or do you shut down the Front End to minimize the noise in the room and work with the guys on their Monitor mixes?

Depends on a number of things. Like I stated earlier, I've done 11-piece bands with 6 wedges at a show I wasn't allowed to make a single peep. You take an educated stab at the wedges and get FOH when you can.

If you use SAC and have cans, you can mute the artist in FOH and talk with him through just his/her wedge. This way they can talk to you in your cans without it coming out of the mains. This is a VERY effective way of communicating.

I've got a Tablet so moving around the room is not an issue.

The tablet is a godsend. It depends on the room. If the stage is 30' away from FOH, I'll just walk up with my tablet. If it's 80' away, I'll communicate to them via their wedge and my cans.

[Jeff Scott]

If you use SAC and have cans, you can mute the artist in FOH and talk with him through just his/her wedge.

Donny..I noticed in a few of your vids that you are using wireless cans. What are you using?

[Donnie Frank]

Donny..I noticed in a few of your vids that you are using wireless cans. What are you using?

I'm using an old G1 Sennheiser IEM. It's awesome because the rack unit has a 1/4" jack that I use all the time. But if I want to roam the room it's a simple matter of sticking a 9 volt battery in the belt pack and using the 1/8" adapter that came with the cans. Then I'm free to roam the room...definitely one of my better ideas. The caveat is that the belt pack is mono, but the rack unit is stereo. Not sure why Sennheiser did it that way, but it's honestly no big deal to me.




The addition of a wireless headphone mic allows me to hold private conversations with any artist at any time from anywhere in the room...especially if they use an In-Ear monitor system. I've had entire conversations with musicians to tweak their monitors during their performance. As a musician myself, I know it's pretty easy to hold conversations while playing. So far I've not had a single complaint. If they do complain I call them a hack....HA!!!