Touch view doesn't seem to work for me

[Brent Evans]

Who cares what size it opens...

Any user who opens it up on a screen of less than 1080 pixels height for the first time and realizes IT DOESN"T WORK "OUT OF THE BOX."

you will want to set it in place and save an F-Key view or two... you are worried about stuff that does not matter in the least... the entire power of the interface is your workspace views that you get to create, not how the windows open first time around.

I will? Great, I didn't know that. I thought I wanted to open a window and it work. I guess it's nice that it does seem to save its position... but you've now had several people tell you "I can't get it to work out of the box" becasue you forgot to have the window auto size LIKE EVERY OTHER WINDOW IN THE PROGRAM DOES. That's a bug, not a feature.

You have missed the point completely and you continue to focus on the wrong things. If you are not using the power of the F-Keys, you are running on two cylinders instead of 12.

Bob L

Unless this is cumbersome because every screen resolution is different and it makes the interface function differently on every device. Unless the user just wants to open the window once in a while on top of other windows and is out of Fkey views. Fkeys are really powerful, but not always practical. They work for YOU becasue you designed them based on your expectations. Not everyone is as leet as you are. Others of us like menus. I like menus. Menus are intuitive for me. I can't name my Fkeys, especially on the on-screen interface. If I have to make more than four, I usually put a piece of board tape on the keyboard to remind me what I put where.

Here's something to consider... I get to decide what I like, not you. You persist to tell me what I like and what I want.

Never mind someone new sitting down at the console... the response I usually get there is "WTF?"

That's beside the point though...

Once again... I'm not against you. I just know what I like and what I want and I'm sorry it doesn't line up with your vision of how one should use the software. I'm not sure how many people get involved in testing and designing the software, but it sure seems like a small group if the diversity of opinion that goes into the "final decisions" leads to what we have here.

[Bob L]

Brent,

Of course it doesn't work out of the box... now you are just being silly... or...

SAC needs lots of tweaks and adjustments to get Windows to behave enough to do what needs to be done to turn a non-realtime OS into something that can attempt to run 25 consoles of 120 chans without glitching audio and maintain stability.

The interface is no different. There is an enormous amount of data to be displayed and adjusted and there are many different views to make that happen in an effective and useful manner. Nothing about this product works right out of the box. It takes a certain commitment from the user to read, learn, understand and then practice navigating the environment... and if that commitment is not there, this product is not for that user and that user has no business with this product... simple as that.

If that statement bothers anyone, then they should not be here.

To use and get the benefits of SAC, you have to get involved in building and tweaking your system... and that includes the software and screen interface. Fkeys make that possible in a very powerful and effective way... open your screens and set them up... and then save them and then enjoy the ride.

When I mentioned things getting blown out of proportion... this is exactly what I meant... and this happens over and over and is extremely tiring after all this time... many say they have been here for x years... then they should know how I work by now... and there should be no surprises... otherwise they are just not paying attention.

The Touch View will work fine on any size tablet screen if you simply size it to fit, scroll it up or down so you can see the faders and save an F-Key. Then practice scrolling up and down, which is extremely easy and enjoy the ride. You can even scroll it up and save another F-Key with the buttons exposed if you don't want to scroll up when you need to see them... simple... effective and a very well thought-out design. If you want to see the whole view at one time, spend a little more money and buy a tablet with higher resolution... simple as that.

Bob L

[Brent Evans]

Of course it doesn't work out of the box... now you are just being silly... or...

It doesn't behave the same way as the F Mixer and Z mixer. It's inconsistent. It should open in a properly scaled window and be bottom justified, just like F and Z. It's broken.

It takes a certain commitment from the user to read, learn, understand and then practice navigating the environment... and if that commitment is not there, this product is not for that user and that user has no business with this product... simple as that.

If that statement bothers anyone, then they should not be here.

It bothers me. I'm a paying customer. You set the price and upgrade schedule, not me.

To use and get the benefits of SAC, you have to get involved in building and tweaking your system... and that includes the software and screen interface. Fkeys make that possible in a very powerful and effective way... open your screens and set them up... and then save them and then enjoy the ride.

I'm getting a bit tired of having to drive so much when I'm supposed to be riding.

When I mentioned things getting blown out of proportion... this is exactly what I meant... and this happens over and over and is extremely tiring after all this time... many say they have been here for x years... then they should know how I work by now... and there should be no surprises... otherwise they are just not paying attention.

Yep, we all know how you work. You treat your customers like they don't matter and berate us when we ask for things to work properly. That's par for the course.

The Touch View will work fine on any size tablet screen if you simply size it to fit, scroll it up or down so you can see the faders and save an F-Key. Then
practice scrolling up and down, which is extremely easy and enjoy the ride.

I'm saying this once more... putting it in big bold capital letters and making it as clear as I possibly can.

IT IS NOT EASY FOR ME TO DO THOSE MOTIONS. I'M PROBABLY NOT THE ONLY ONE. THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ALTERNATIVE FOR THOSE OF US WHOSE HANDS AND BRAINS WORK DIFFERENTLY THAN YOURS. FOR US, IT'S BROKEN.

You can even scroll it up and save another F-Key with the buttons exposed if you don't want to scroll up when you need to see them... simple... effective and a very well thought-out design. If you want to see the whole view at one time, spend a little more money and buy a tablet with higher resolution... simple as that.

Bob L

Bob, if there's two things your design isn't, those would be simple and well thought out. It is THE most complex mixer design there is, it requires the greatest learning curve, it REQUIRES tweaking to get it right by your own admission, and it's missing so many vital things... well thought out would be looking at a chart of common screen sizes and designing something that will work on what most people have instead of making excuses about it.

Since you're telling me off elsewhere, maybe I am. It's a shame you have real competition now...

[Cary B. Cornett]

You treat your customers like they don't matter ...

I have dealt with companies and people like that. Bob is not one of those. Not by a long shot.

Bob, if there's two things your design isn't, those would be simple and well thought out. It is THE most complex mixer design there is, it requires the greatest learning curve, it REQUIRES tweaking to get it right...

Damn right it's complex. In feature richness and structure, SAC makes the ""big iron" consoles I first learned on (Neve, SSL, API, Flickinger) childishly simple by comparison. As hardware, it would have umpteen thousand knobs and buttons, not to mention a meter bridge that could sink a battleship. That means some pretty fancy navigation is required, no matter how you slice it. To make matters worse it actually (horrors!) expects you to make decisions about signal flow and how you want it to work.

Now, I will never, ever use all of the possible things that SAC can do. I'll never use all the channels, or all the consoles. But it lets me have features I WANT, lets me do things I could not begin to afford any other way. All right, so I have to dig a little and figure things out. Kind of like I once had to spread out a D-size blueprint signal flow diagram on my dining room table so that I could figure out how to drive a Neve 8048 console.

Engineering is all about trade-offs. For the cost effectiveness and quality I get in something easily movable by ordinary people, the trade-off is, yes, a somewhat steeper learning curve, and a willingness to improvise. I have been satisfied with that trade. So I do the required tweaking to get it right, and smile because I can get the results I want.

[Bob L]

Brent,

I don't know why I bother... but...

I gave you yet another option that eliminates your stated issue that your fingers don't work in a comfortable manner for scrolling the view... make two F-Keys... one that displays the fader position and another that displays the top buttons... simply press one F-Key or the other... no scrolling... no finger issues...

By the way... if you have such trouble with your fingers, why are you wrestling with Touch options at all... and on small undersized displays as well...

And... since you brought it up... I cannot seem to find Brent Evans in my database anywhere... is that your real name... or what name is your software registered under?

Bob L

[Brent Evans]

Brent,
I gave you yet another option that eliminates your stated issue that your fingers don't work in a comfortable manner for scrolling the view... make two F-Keys... one that displays the fader position and another that displays the top buttons... simply press one F-Key or the other... no scrolling... no finger issues...

So I have to remember an unintuitive hack to make something work that should just work in a stressful situation. That's usually the answer, I guess.

By the way... if you have such trouble with your fingers, why are you wrestling with Touch options at all... and on small undersized displays as well...

I don't have a problem operating any other mixer interface on any other tablet. All the iPad apps seem to work quite well on a 7 inch iPad, and the AH Qu app and GLD app on Android work pretty well too. It ain't me.

And... since you brought it up... I cannot seem to find Brent Evans in my database anywhere... is that your real name... or what name is your software registered under?

Really?

Now you think I'm a pirate because I don't share your views?

Watch out or I might just Puff away one day. Not that it matters. I'm sure $100 doesn't mean anything to you. $700 did to me, though....

[Bob L]

A simple answer is at hand... what name is your software registered under?

If I am to take all this grief and abuse, at least you could give me an honest answer to an honest question.

Bob L

[Craig Allen]

The link under 'really' is a screen shot of his name in the registered user download section of your website, with his name clearly at the top...

Even his board status says he's a SAC user...

[Bob L]

Thanks... that clears that up... the first and last name in the local database was switched and therefore did not come up on the normal search.

Problem solved...

Now... I'm sorry you see the various solutions I offered as hacks... I see them as a powerful and flexible design that allows you to make things work well on many variations of high and low priced gear, with OS installations that are as many and different as snowflakes.

Oh well... we most likely will never agree... can we just leave it at that.

Bob L

[KarelNoon]

Just a simple question: how many F keys are there?

When I follow all the guidelines made on this forum I would probably need like 50 or more to get all the views I want, so the answer is: there are not enough f keys.

So I am a little disappointed with that screen resolution thing which will probably hold me back from reactivating my sac system for live work.

I switched to an avid s3l some months ago but was still hoping for a b-rig option.
You see, 100 dollars are not that much, but when is see how fast things are going or how the arguments go in here I really have to think about it twice or more....

... Isn't there a simple solution to a quick update? Screens resolution can't be that hard ( by the way, avid is also not very good at that screen resolution thing, but in the end it works out of the box....)