Micing cello & violin

[jmh]

I was tossed into a live sound thing last night - which is not my thing. I had a cello & violin added to the ensemble. I had a sm81 available and did them together with the mic about 1' each above, behind and to the left of the cellist kind of pointing toward the body with the violinist (on the cellist's left) a few feet to the left of the mic with the instrument about 110 degrees off the aim of the mic. This sort of worked (certainly not bad for 30 sec setup time) - but you always want to do better. Of course you always have problems with speakers to mess with ideas of how you might have set it up.

Anyway, that task is done - but it does lead to the question for recording...

What are your thoughts about micing of these instruments?

John

[CurtZHP]

Can you re-describe the setup? As it reads now, it's a little confusing.

That said, an SM81 is a fine microphone for that application. Let's talk placement.

[Richard Rupert]

I recorded a cello and violin just today in the studio-- the same players for the second time. I had them face each other, both seated about 12 feet apart. I used a U87 in front of the cello in the cardioid pattern just slightly above the bridge position, and a little off center. For the violin I used a ribbon mic above and roughly in the middle of the instrument. The violinist was seated in a slightly livelier area of the room, over slate and in front of a stone wall, and the cellist was over a carpeted section. The results were very good with very little "bleed" and a nice tonal balance. I never (okay, RARELY) e.q. on print, so these were recorded flat. The violin was just a tiny bit mid-rangy, so I pulled a bit of 1k out on playback and all participants and artist were happy.

[jmh]

My question is really just about micing those instruments in non-sound re-enforcement case.

But for the sake of discussion, the violinist was standing about 3' to the left of cellist. They were both oriented toward the audience. The mic was about 5' high. If the cellist reached her left hand back over her left shoulder she might touch the mic that would be pointed from her wrist to her elbow...

What else, the mic would be about 2' to the right of the violinist's bowing elbow and a bit behind.

Its funny when you try to articulate these things. Another way to say it is that the mic was a foot or so above the headstock almost aimed down the cello strings toward the bridge - or it would have been, but I think she shifted her seat a bit forward before they got started.

[jmh]

For the violin I used a ribbon mic above

I don't tend to utilize the figure8 pattern that much. Just out of curiosity, what is the ceiling?

[Angie]

Here's a Youtube of a piece featuring violin and cello we recorded a few years ago. Ribbons (M160) were used on both. You'll get an idea of placement of the mics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et-VE9pAI58

[jmh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et-VE9pAI58

That placement certainly worked out nicely.

I didn't know about the dual ribbon either. I'm curious how they stuffed that in the little bulb with the front address, obviously they are small ribbons.

[Microstudio]

This might help?

[Richard Rupert]

I don't tend to utilize the figure8 pattern that much. Just out of curiosity, what is the ceiling?

Stepped (sawtooth) 2' angled ceiling made of soft pine wood about 6' above the mic.

[RBIngraham]

I mic strings in orchestra pits all the time. That video Angie linked is what will work the best for live sound. I tend to use a medium to large diaphragm for cello when possible. For me it's typically something like a CAD E100 or E60 on cello. (I have a lot of CAD being an Ohio boy)

I would suspect micing the cello from above would sound rather thin for live sound. But that's just a guess. Recording studio is a different animal all together.

A small diaphragm over the violin pointing straight down is pretty standard stuff. The only other good options are clip on mics but you have to be careful with those and don't fall into the trap of thinking all live sounds mics need to be cardiod. Clip on mics are often easier to work with when they are Omni.

The main thing to watch out for is staying out of the way of bowing. And you want to pick up the resonance of the body of the instrument, that is what makes the sound, the strings themselves are very brittle sounding if you don't pick up the body of the instrument.