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[Frank DeWitt]

I can't imagine 4 or 5 or however many musicians constantly changing monitors mixes during a live show.
It's got to affect their performance in a negative way.
And it would be a disaster if we're talking stage wedges - constantly changing and sqrewing with the front of the house sound.
Lot's of musicians have a hard enough time getting the sound of their instruments right without having them constantly changing things on the fly - that's not a good thing and I wouldn't want to be the sound guy dealing with that.
Maybe we'll get to the point where everbody in the audience will just wear ear buds and control their own mix and big sound systems and road crews will go away - The sound man can then just sit back and baby sit the equipment.
These days everyone is in their own little virtual world any way.

The way it works in real life for us is the people on the Worship Team use IEMs. They adjust there mix durning practice. It is very rare for them to touch the control Surface durning the service. Part of this is due to instruction. We have taught them that they need the beat and there place. For good music go sit down. IEMs have been a great improvement for us and we would never go back to monitors.

[Tim Miskimon]

The way it works in real life for us is the people on the Worship Team use IEMs. They adjust there mix durning practice. It is very rare for them to touch the control Surface durning the service. Part of this is due to instruction. We have taught them that they need the beat and there place. For good music go sit down. IEMs have been a great improvement for us and we would never go back to monitors.

I can see it working in a non pro situation where you actually have time for practice and musicians actually "listen" to you.
Bands who have members who barely show up on time for the gig is more the norm these days and then they spend half the night fiddling with their mix and screw the rest of the band.
I've worked with lots of popular regional bands who after 20 years or more on the road still don't get it and it only gets worse if you allow them to take control of things when they don't really understand how every little move you make affects everything else.
I'm all for moving forward but hi-tech isn't always the answer.

[RBIngraham]

I can't imagine 4 or 5 or however many musicians constantly changing monitors mixes during a live show.
It's got to affect their performance in a negative way.
And it would be a disaster if we're talking stage wedges - constantly changing and sqrewing with the front of the house sound.
Lot's of musicians have a hard enough time getting the sound of their instruments right without having them constantly changing things on the fly - that's not a good thing and I wouldn't want to be the sound guy dealing with that.
Maybe we'll get to the point where everbody in the audience will just wear ear buds and control their own mix and big sound systems and road crews will go away - The sound man can then just sit back and baby sit the equipment.
These days everyone is in their own little virtual world any way.

The key to your concerns here are In Ear monitors. How many bands that could even afford the cost of a personal monitor mix system (or pay for person to handle their mixers) are depending solely on wedges these days. I am not in the trenches for this kind of work very often but from what I see coming through local music venues, the answer to the question is very few. In fact I don't think I've ever seen bands using personal monitor mixers that are using primarily wedges. Most I see that have these systems are all on In Ears or perhaps a hybrid system with only a few wedges just so the lead vocal can pop out their buds and they don't lose all monitor ability. But more often than not, they are all on In Ears. At that point it doesn't really matter. If they want to mess with **** all night long they are not going to screw up their band mates. They won't affect the house mix in any way.

Most I have seen using these systems carry them, so they own or have rented the system for the length of their tour. So it's not something they are setting up from scratch every night. They plug all their stuff in and for the most part it's all ready to go. Most have presets, so they can recall their previous mixes. The people using them are used to using that system and it all works out just fine.

This is typical for Broadway pits as well. Almost all of them have an Aviom system in the pit and all the musicians that play in them, know how to work one. And subs and primary players can each save their own personal presets.

No, they are not something you throw at the musician who walks in 15 mins before the set starts and has never touched that make or model before. Duh!

As for audiences all wearing headphones, there have been plenty of days where I wished that was the case. Both as an audience member being subjected to a lousy mix and as a sound designer/engineer dealing with ****ty acoustics and unrealistic volume expectations, etc....

And in some ways I have dealt with just that, having worked on some exchange projects with theatre companies from non english speaking countries, I've done the "live mix for english speakers via a hearing impaired system" where I mixed a live feed, simultaneous translation and SFX/Playback feeds to the system that 600+ audience members were relying on to hear and understand the show they were watching. There have also been showings of movies and such where a crowd is watching a film in central park all wearing headphones. Granted, no they did not have their own mix controls. They got the mix given to them.

[cgrafx]

As for audiences all wearing headphones, there have been plenty of days where I wished that was the case. Both as an audience member being subjected to a lousy mix and as a sound designer/engineer dealing with ****ty acoustics and unrealistic volume expectations, etc....

Silent Live Concerts


Headphone Tickets, Tour Dates 2016 & Concerts - Songkick

[Tim Miskimon]

The key to your concerns here are In Ear monitors. How many bands that could even afford the cost of a personal monitor mix system (or pay for person to handle their mixers) are depending solely on wedges these days. I am not in the trenches for this kind of work very often but from what I see coming through local music venues, the answer to the question is very few. In fact I don't think I've ever seen bands using personal monitor mixers that are using primarily wedges. Most I see that have these systems are all on In Ears or perhaps a hybrid system with only a few wedges just so the lead vocal can pop out their buds and they don't lose all monitor ability. But more often than not, they are all on In Ears. At that point it doesn't really matter. If they want to mess with **** all night long they are not going to screw up their band mates. They won't affect the house mix in any way.

Most I have seen using these systems carry them, so they own or have rented the system for the length of their tour. So it's not something they are setting up from scratch every night. They plug all their stuff in and for the most part it's all ready to go. Most have presets, so they can recall their previous mixes. The people using them are used to using that system and it all works out just fine.

This is typical for Broadway pits as well. Almost all of them have an Aviom system in the pit and all the musicians that play in them, know how to work one. And subs and primary players can each save their own personal presets.

No, they are not something you throw at the musician who walks in 15 mins before the set starts and has never touched that make or model before. Duh!

As for audiences all wearing headphones, there have been plenty of days where I wished that was the case. Both as an audience member being subjected to a lousy mix and as a sound designer/engineer dealing with ****ty acoustics and unrealistic volume expectations, etc....

And in some ways I have dealt with just that, having worked on some exchange projects with theatre companies from non english speaking countries, I've done the "live mix for english speakers via a hearing impaired system" where I mixed a live feed, simultaneous translation and SFX/Playback feeds to the system that 600+ audience members were relying on to hear and understand the show they were watching. There have also been showings of movies and such where a crowd is watching a film in central park all wearing headphones. Granted, no they did not have their own mix controls. They got the mix given to them.

Yeah I know there are lots of pros out there that like the way they work.
I wasn't talking about the personal mix screwing up the sound - I was talking about the musician who fiddles with his monitor mix and it affects his and everybody elses performance - I have seen this happen a lot lately.
It also takes a good while for the singer to get his dynamics straight to where he isn't over singing or under singing.
Just like the guy who comes into the studio and has a tough time singing with head phones on.
Some singers have the headphone volume so loud that they are constantly singing sharp.
Others have there vocal so loud that it causes them to hold back from belting out.
It takes a while to get use to these in ear monitors - some people adapt very easily - others like me hate them.
I personally can't use the in ears because they make me feel isolated from the audiance and screws with my singing dynamics - I miss hearing the people react and like open air better for that reason.
It took a long time for me to be able to use headphones in the studio when I sing.
In the early days (before the mid 60s) no one was really using headphones - they sang to speakers that were to the left or right of them and to this day my favorite vocal recordings were done that way.
But yeah I see your point - I think it comes down to what ever works for you is what you should use.

[RBIngraham]

Yeah I know there are lots of pros out there that like the way they work.
I wasn't talking about the personal mix screwing up the sound - I was talking about the musician who fiddles with his monitor mix and it affects his and everybody elses performance - I have seen this happen a lot lately.
It also takes a good while for the singer to get his dynamics straight to where he isn't over singing or under singing.
Just like the guy who comes into the studio and has a tough time singing with head phones on.
Some singers have the headphone volume so loud that they are constantly singing sharp.
Others have there vocal so loud that it causes them to hold back from belting out.
It takes a while to get use to these in ear monitors - some people adapt very easily - others like me hate them.
I personally can't use the in ears because they make me feel isolated from the audiance and screws with my singing dynamics - I miss hearing the people react and like open air better for that reason.
It took a long time for me to be able to use headphones in the studio when I sing.
In the early days (before the mid 60s) no one was really using headphones - they sang to speakers that were to the left or right of them and to this day my favorite vocal recordings were done that way.
But yeah I see your point - I think it comes down to what ever works for you is what you should use.

Sounds like perhaps you didn't have audience/ambiance mics or not good ones anyway. There is definitely a learning curve to learning to perform with them, no doubt. Just like there is a learning curve to learn how to mix monitors for a group that is all on In Ears.

[Frank DeWitt]

Sounds like perhaps you didn't have audience/ambiance mics or not good ones anyway. There is definitely a learning curve to learning to perform with them, no doubt. Just like there is a learning curve to learn how to mix monitors for a group that is all on In Ears.

We have a separate mixer and control surface for each person on the worship team. They did a outdoor concert together with a few other local churches last summer. They came back and all agreed they missed there IEMs