Behringer S16 S32 midas DL32 via Appsys as interface for SAC

[tthorsten]

Is it possible to use Behringer S16 S32 midas DL32 via Appsys as interface for SAC

S16
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...es/S16/p/P0AJA

S32
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...es/S32/p/P0BMC

DL16
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...s/DL16/p/P0BI3

DL32
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...s/DL32/p/P0BMD


SD8
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...es/SD8/p/P0BKI

SD16
http://www.music-group.com/Categorie...s/SD16/p/P0BKE




for Gaincontrol in SAC or VST there is this tool from Thomas Neumann SAC GAIN
http://www.sawstudiouser.com/forums/...highlight=gain

or for Gaincontrol via BCF2000 and BCR200 via MIDI direct on the MIDI in and out of the S16
https://www.music-group.com/Categori...CF2000/p/P0246

https://www.music-group.com/Categori...CR2000/p/P0245

the coolest way will be complete support of the Behringer Xtouch
https://www.music-group.com/Categori...OMPACT/p/P0B3L
https://www.music-group.com/Categori...-TOUCH/p/P0B1X

the Sound could be transmitt via ADAT Appsys Adat extender
http://appsys.ch/en/products/extende...2b-adx-64b-pro
also the Midi signal

or i think over AES50 with the appsys mutiverter
http://appsys.ch/en/products/extende...iverter-mvr-64
transmit into Dante and

have Dante in the computer Via Dante virtual soundcard
https://www.audinate.com/products/so...nte-controller

put the output via Dante into the amps
http://www.amphenolaudio.com/product...r/amphe-dante/

could this work in real

and would it be better or cheaper than

have some ADA8200 with gain mod and with a Raydat card and a Remote PC in the Rack and Remote FOH with BFC and BRC and Touch Display ?

[RBIngraham]

Could it work? Yes, probably it would work. But Dante Virtual Sound Card is not designed for live mixing tasks and would add too much latency to your system for live mixing needs in most situations. In order to use Dante for live mixing you really need to get one of the PCIe card which off loads some of the Dante network processing.

Also look into the Yamaha TIO stage boxes, they are only slightly more expensive than the Behringer and you gain the fact that you don't need to covert from AES50 to Dante, so you eliminate one extra box and format conversion. Plus... it's not made by Behringer.

Several uses of a SAC competitor are using the Yamaha TIO boxes with a Dante PCIe card with great success. There shouldn't' be any reason it wouldn't work with SAC either, but as always... try before you buy.

[RBIngraham]

Almost forgot.... the Behringer stage boxes won't work with just the ADAT extenders because they only have an optical output. So there is no way to lock them together with a single clock except via AES50. Maybe there are some games you can play I don't know. But if you really want to use the Behringer stage box devices I would only do so by getting the AES50 to Dante convector.

[Mattseymour]

The multiverter could be used to convert from the Behringer AES50 boxes to Dante but I don't understand why you would want to do that. Even if you already have an S16 it's cheaper to buy a Yamaha Tio and a rednet card than the multiverter.

The multiverter is an excellent looking product, and my experience with the Appsys products is they're first rate. However it's a problem solver. Perfect for broadcast trucks and anyone who needs to interface to someone else's system. I think using a product like this to connect cheap aes50 boxes to a dante network is asking for trouble. Just buy dante boxes.

I can confirm the Focusrite Rednet card works just fine with SAC. Once you have a hardware Dante interface you're good to go with any Dante equipment. The great strength of the system is Dante is Dante... it's all made by Audinate so there are no compatibility issues (until Dante2 comes along perhaps).

[RBIngraham]

Well let's be fair about it. It would depend on how many S16 units you already own. If I had 4 of them which is the amount of I/O I need most days that would be $4k worth of TIO units.

If there is a need to use them with other Behringer gear it could also make sense. And I will say I like the variety of I/O sizes Behringer makes. Yamaha has that as well but only in their much more expensive RIO line. If you need a lot of I/O all spread out over lots of locations within a venue that also might make the Behringer units and a convertor more resonable. The appsys unit would also allow one to use a bunch of existing ADAT gear.

I agree if starting from sratch, go with the TIO and forget all that extra gack. But that method could makr a lot of sense for quite a few users.

[cgrafx]

I agree if starting from sratch, go with the TIO and forget all that extra gack. But that method could makr a lot of sense for quite a few users.

On the other hand, if your starting from scratch, there are also other alternatives.

Motu's newer line of interfaces are controllable via a web interface.

So you could do ADAT connections to a RAYdat card onstage (since AVB ethernet is still a challenge) and control the preamps remotely from any ethernet or wireless connected web browser.

I just replaced two of my Mackie Onyx 1200F units in our studio with a all Motu units.

Remotely controllable via web browser
- 8M for headphone and playback monitoring (6 headphone mixes and 2 studio monitor mixes)
- 16A (16 line inputs used for keyboards and our roland vDrum kit)

Has to be setup via USB, but once configured its a better replacement for the ADA8000/8200
- 8Pre (8 in with per channel pads and phantom power and still has ADAT in for headphones that allows me to sync clock from ADAT)

[TomyN]

Hi,

I'm using the following configuration as my 'basic' module

pc with motu 424 (win8.1, running sac)
one motu2408-II (delivering 8 Outputs)
one motu1224 (delivering AES-EBU out)
one S16 (used for inputs only)
one ADA8200 with RGC mod (used for In and output)
one RGC
one USB -> Midi Converter
two ports of the 424 available on 5 pin XLR for extension racks.

The system works quite well. Clocksource is the S16 via ADAT. (According to behringer, it will clock an other S-16 when you'll connect them via AES50, but I did not test it yet).

Gaincontroll is done using my plug - in, the gain (and phantom) settings of the S-16 are controlled directly via midi, the ADA8200 is controlled using the RGC.

This configuration works well for years now (but I recently upgraded from ADA8000 to ADA8200 and replaced the 2408-II by a 2408-III, and the new configuration is currently only 'bench tested' )

Tomy

[tthorsten]

Sounds complicate a mash up from al kinds of interfaces.

[Mattseymour]

Sounds complicate a mash up from al kinds of interfaces.

There was a time when using ada8000 with a remote gain hack and adat extenders made a reasonable amount of sense. It's how my first SAC rig was built. Still got the adat extenders if anyone wants to make me an offer for them.


It worked pretty well and achieved something for low cost that was otherwise only possible with some big money kit. However times have changed. Networked audio makes much more sense and there are affordable Dante stagebox options using the Yamaha Tio or one of the various rack mixers out there. Not only is it not much more expensive than an adat solution, it's more reliable too. Nobody is sorry to say farewell to the toslink connectors in a live rig.

[RBIngraham]

On the other hand, if your starting from scratch, there are also other alternatives.

Motu's newer line of interfaces are controllable via a web interface.

So you could do ADAT connections to a RAYdat card onstage (since AVB ethernet is still a challenge) and control the preamps remotely from any ethernet or wireless connected web browser.

I just replaced two of my Mackie Onyx 1200F units in our studio with a all Motu units.

Remotely controllable via web browser
- 8M for headphone and playback monitoring (6 headphone mixes and 2 studio monitor mixes)
- 16A (16 line inputs used for keyboards and our roland vDrum kit)

Has to be setup via USB, but once configured its a better replacement for the ADA8000/8200
- 8Pre (8 in with per channel pads and phantom power and still has ADAT in for headphones that allows me to sync clock from ADAT)

Yeah you can probably do that as well, but if you're starting with no previous investment do you really want to buy one audio interface just to hook it up to another audio interface and do that via ADAT optical? I would say, no... bad investment.

Again, if you have a ton of gear already it can make sense to continue to use what you have and make a gradual transition over just selling it all off and starting new. Of course at the same time, you might want to do that if you can afford to do so, while the old gear has some value. I'm sure by the time I finally dump all my MOTU PCI gear it will likely be next to worthless. But if I could afford to buy all new Dante based gear I would sell it all now. But it's not in the cards... or wallet I should say.

The MOTU AVB stuff could be a decent solution in the future. Right now from all reports I have from various sources it is a bit finicky. There are some beta drivers out there that allow for use of the Thunderbolt port with Windows, but you have to have just the right thunderbolt controller in your PC. (remind anyone of firewire?) Not that there are a ton of options for TB cards for the PC anyway. I have heard good reports about using the MOTU unit with that card. I've heard mixed reports about using it as a USB interface. But all the good reports are with the newer beta drivers. I suspect it will settle down in time and just like most of the MOTU gear it takes a while for them to work out the drivers and make them reliable and solid.

But if you want something you can take out of the box and it just works right now, with little tinkering, Dante is the best bet by far or I would go with an RME MADI based system (but that will cost you $$$). Even if I had the money I would go with Dante right now. It's way ahead in the race.

As more and more protocols become compatible with AES67 (Ravenna), then perhaps we'll finally see the holy grail where any network based audio protocol can talk to any other. But that's a little way down the road yet.