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  1. Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    ... I use Chainer, guess it forces realtime audio and overcomes the issues with VST's that
    otherwise wouldn't work in SAC ...
    I don't think Chainer "forces realtime audio". It just doesn't report the (accumulated) latency of the loaded plugs back to SAC, in a way that makes SAC aware of the latency.
    Peter Olsen

    Hardware: Asus TUF Z270 mark 2, Intel Core i3-7350K, 8 GB ram, 250GB NVMe SSD, 2 RayDAT, 2 DSB2408 preamp/converters.
    OS: Windows 10. Buffer: 1X32.

  2. Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Does chainer add a lot of load to the processor?

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    Waves Rack will have latency I guess, never tried it to be honest!

    I use Chainer, guess it forces realtime audio and overcomes the issues with VST's that
    otherwise wouldn't work in SAC, so that is why it is used here.
    It's easy - actually you don't need to set things up anything except, running a scan
    for the plugins DIR and that's it!

    Cheers!

  3. #13

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    No it doesn't!
    Almost nothing...

  4. #14

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter O View Post
    I don't think Chainer "forces realtime audio". It just doesn't report the (accumulated) latency of the loaded plugs back to SAC, in a way that makes SAC aware of the latency.
    Does Chainer add latency in and of itself?
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  5. #15

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    I've tried Chainer just today and it does not add any latency, nor the waves run with a latency when running in Chainer - At least I haven't noticed any!
    I did a test, switch it on and off and there was no difference! So the best thing is to try it and hear it for yourself, maybe I'm wrong but.....
    Also keep in mind that C6 won't work ether way!Though there are alternatives for that plugin
    Last edited by operationwhat; 02-12-2018 at 12:42 PM.

  6. #16

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Quote Originally Posted by operationwhat View Post
    I've tried Chainer just today and it does not add any latency, nor the waves run with a latency when running in Chainer - At least I haven't noticed any!
    I did a test, switch it on and off and there was no difference! So the best thing is to try it and hear it for yourself, maybe I'm wrong but.....
    Also keep in mind that C6 won't work ether way!Though there are alternatives for that plugin
    Almost certainly the Waves plugin adds some latency, but only for the path where you insert it, not for anything that doesn't go through it. So, if you patch it into an inpuit channel, only THAT channel will be delayed, because, unlike SawStudio, SAC does not do delay compensation to make all channels match timing. However, if you put the plugin in a mix master output, everything through that output will be delayed. What we do not know is how MUCH it will be delayed, and with some plugins, the delay might be small enough that you won't hear it in a live PA situation.
    Cary B. Cornett
    aka "Puzzler"
    www.chinesepuzzlerecording.com

  7. #17

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Quote Originally Posted by Cary B. Cornett View Post
    Almost certainly the Waves plugin adds some latency, but only for the path where you insert it, not for anything that doesn't go through it. So, if you patch it into an inpuit channel, only THAT channel will be delayed, because, unlike SawStudio, SAC does not do delay compensation to make all channels match timing. However, if you put the plugin in a mix master output, everything through that output will be delayed. What we do not know is how MUCH it will be delayed, and with some plugins, the delay might be small enough that you won't hear it in a live PA situation.
    Except that, unlike SAW which compensates, SAC does not and will not work with latency-causing plug-ins without something like Chainer. I don't remember what visible indicator a person has in SAC when such a plug-in is inserted - maybe it just ignores it and doesn't use it? - I know Bob has explained before. I just don't recall right now. But it will not work. So maybe it just appears to be working for operationwhat, but not really.
    SAW/SAC - finally retired a P4/2gHz after ten great years! Burnin' rubber in 2015 with an Intel Core2 Duo e4700/2.6GHz and the trusty RME Digiface/PCI pack.

    2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets recorded/mixed in SAW with SAC as a front-end mixer for live streaming radio!
    Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
    Pharoah Sanders Quartet
    Fred Hersch Trio

    These are post mix sets to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

  8. #18

    Default Re: How to load the wave plugins in the SAC software

    Quote Originally Posted by UpTilDawn View Post
    Except that, unlike SAW which compensates, SAC does not and will not work with latency-causing plug-ins without something like Chainer. I don't remember what visible indicator a person has in SAC when such a plug-in is inserted - maybe it just ignores it and doesn't use it? - I know Bob has explained before. I just don't recall right now. But it will not work. So maybe it just appears to be working for operationwhat, but not really.
    As I recall, SAC simply blocks any plugin that reports latency. What Chainer does (among other things) is prevent the latency information from getting to SAC, so that SAC doesn't KNOW about the latency. The latency is still there in whatever path the plugin occupies, moving the signal timing of that path "out of sync" with the rest of the mix.

    What SAC does is prevent having a latency causing plugin from being able to add a delay that is more than the rest of the processing going on. It is a good safety measure, without which there would be all sorts of user complaints about flanging, phase cancellation and other problems. If a user then deliberately defeats that protection by using something like chainer, there can be no doubt about the responsibility for resultant unwanted audio artifacts.

    Put another way, what Bob did with this prevention feature was implement a brilliantly conceived "misunderstanding filter", a class of object that includes locks on doors and fences between yards. (The philosophical construct that I have named "misunderstanding filter" was my response to the intent of Robert Frost's poem "Mending Wall", and was inspired by my father's teaching that "Locks are to keep honest people out".)
    Cary B. Cornett
    aka "Puzzler"
    www.chinesepuzzlerecording.com

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