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Thread: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

  1. #1

    Default Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    This may be my last question for a while.

    I am using SAW Studio BASIC with a VERY basic audio interface (the $29 Berringer UCA-202) which has always worked fine and sounds more than good-enough for my voice-over/music productions. I am willing to replace it if you guys insist that doing so will fix my problem, but first, here's the issue:

    I can play audio from the computer on which SAW is installed, but I cannot receive audio from an external mixer connected to the Berringer interface. This was never a problem with my previous computer or my previous version of SAW.

    When I go to set the "in" audio properties in SAW, the Berringer comes up as a USB Microphone, same as it does for the "out" setting. I select it and then try to send in a signal from my external mixer and nothing happens. I even tried putting SAW into "Record Ready" mode and still did not get any signal.

    I have also disabled the computer's internal sound card, reinstalled the Berringer interface, messed with volume levels, tried both the "output" jacks on the Berringer and the "headphone out" jack and nothing wants to work.

    My guess is that you real audio guys are going to come up with a simple solution that makes me look and feel like a total doofus, but I can handle it, as long as it solves this last major issue I am having with SAW.

    Thanks in advance for this - and all the OTHER - answers you have provided over the past couple of weeks. Because of all of you, I am enjoying SAW more and more each session.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    In Win 7, 8 and 10, for many soundcards, the inputs and outputs depend on having devices actually plugged in... then Windows attempts to be smart and in all its plug and play wisdome can muck things up pretty nicely.

    Sometimes you will not see input choices until something is actually plugged in... so try first plugging your mixer into the soundcard inputs... then go to the Windows Control Panel Sound options and hopefully you may now see other choices besides the default mic choice... you will hopefully have a line in choice... set that as the default and leave the mixer plugged in at all times.

    Then in SAW, you will now hopefully have a choice for the line in selection in the Options/Audio Device Setup.

    Set this... and save the default preferences once you get things working.

    Bob L

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Nuh-uh. The mixer is plugged in and still no signal.

    I found it odd, but not inconceivable, that the Beringer came up as a USB Mic. You say the "USB Mic" is some sort of default? Then how come when I unplugged the Beringer, the USB Mic option went away?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M View Post
    Nuh-uh. The mixer is plugged in and still no signal.

    I found it odd, but not inconceivable, that the Beringer came up as a USB Mic. You say the "USB Mic" is some sort of default? Then how come when I unplugged the Beringer, the USB Mic option went away?
    It's not a SAW default.
    It was suggested, because the Behringer input may be recognized as a USB mic by default..... if you get what I mean... I can't explain what I know... others might want to.

    It goes back to the drivers everybody keeps mentioning.
    SAW/SAC - finally retired a P4/2gHz after ten great years! Burnin' rubber in 2015 with an Intel Core2 Duo e4700/2.6GHz and the trusty RME Digiface/PCI pack.

    2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets recorded/mixed in SAW with SAC as a front-end mixer for live streaming radio!
    Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
    Pharoah Sanders Quartet
    Fred Hersch Trio

    These are post mix sets to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    884

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M View Post
    Nuh-uh. The mixer is plugged in and still no signal.

    I found it odd, but not inconceivable, that the Beringer came up as a USB Mic. You say the "USB Mic" is some sort of default? Then how come when I unplugged the Beringer, the USB Mic option went away?
    The Berringer UCA-202 is a single stereo channel audio interface with LEFT/RIGHT in and out.

    There are no Mic inputs. It should show up as either two mono channels or a single stereo channel.

    I don't have any idea how it would show up is a Mic, it isn't a mic preamp, just a basic line in/out interface.

    There is a 32-bit and 64-bit driver, both support WDM and ASIO, you should be using ASIO.

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    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    OK, humor me, cuz I've never really understood drivers.

    My computer installed whatever drivers it needed to make the Beringer functional. Are you saying that, despite there already being drivers installed, I should tick off the ASIO box as you illustrated above?

    I tried exactly what you suggested and, after selecting "ASIO Protocol," all I get is a pop-up box with a blank numbered list -- no instructions, no indication as to what to do next.

    Sorry to sound like a putz. I'm good with files and edits and mixes, but I suck at the back-end stuff that makes it all work.
    Last edited by Tom M; 03-19-2017 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Just did some homework and discovered an article about how the Behringer (what the heck is the correct spelling anyway?) will not function correctly without the original ASIO drivers that came with it. So I downloaded and installed them from some creepy website and now I am getting signal from my board to the computer. Yeah!!! BUT...

    I cannot monitor the audio while it is going in. I can playback audio once it's recorded, but not while it's being recorded. I have tried using both the Line Out and the Monitor (Headphone) Out on the Behringer and neither one works. I have also set both the "In" and "Out" audio devices in SAW to the new choice, which is something like "Behringer Line In," or "ASIO Line In." (Wish my studio computer weren't in another room and wish I could remember stuff from one part of the house to the next.)

    This may be a simple issue that I will figure out on my own with a fresh head tomorrow, but until then, if anyone can think of a reason this is happening, I'd appreciate another one of your magical tips.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Most of my original comments are irrelevant since you've posted some level of success while I was still typing an answer -

    But, maybe this can help a bit...
    There was a rather lengthy video on setting up a n external dj mixer with the usb202, where the guy uses both the interface and the computer's built-in realtek soundcard output jack for a bit more elaborate scenario....... it may be worth looking at and may strike a chord with you to get to the bottom of your issue.

    I can say that the only usb interface I have used is the Behrigner x32 system and I have never been able to monitor my input to the laptop. I can only watch the levels and see how it sounds after the fact. I can monitor off the x32 mixing console as I record, but that isn't the same as monitoring what's going into SAW, or in my case, SAC/SAW combined.
    Last edited by UpTilDawn; 03-19-2017 at 06:52 PM.
    SAW/SAC - finally retired a P4/2gHz after ten great years! Burnin' rubber in 2015 with an Intel Core2 Duo e4700/2.6GHz and the trusty RME Digiface/PCI pack.

    2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets recorded/mixed in SAW with SAC as a front-end mixer for live streaming radio!
    Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
    Pharoah Sanders Quartet
    Fred Hersch Trio

    These are post mix sets to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maple Ridge, BC Canada
    Posts
    1,685

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    Hello,

    If you check the Behringer Web-site, it offers the existing ASIO4ALL drivers - as the drivers for use with the UCA202a. Interesting!

    Though I am not using the Behringer, the device should show up similar to the following:

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    Last edited by mr_es335; 03-19-2017 at 08:52 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cannot Get Signal From Mixer to SAW!

    The old SAW never had input monitoring capability so you must have been able to listen to your mic directly from some external mixer somehow... were you using this Behringer mic then? If not and all this is new, then you have a few things to do. If the Behringer has some way of hearing the mic directly in the driver or with a small utility app... use that.... if not, you will have to dig further into the helpfile.

    To hear what you are recording directly in SAWStudioBasic you have to setup input monitoring...

    From the helpfile:

    Input Monitoring

    Input monitoring is dependent on the audio device driver abilities. Some devices have control applets for adjusting various parameters including how the device monitors incoming signals. Some devices allow you to directly monitor the incoming signal at the device outputs or not, and/or allow signal routing to separate monitor outputs. In many cases, turning off device monitoring, and monitoring from the source signal at the mic preamp or mixer output is probably the most familiar way to record in the SAWStudio environment. Blending playback outputs of the MultiTrack with the incoming source signal in an external mixer and sending a headphone mix to the performer(s) from the external mixer can be a simple arrangement.

    If your system is capable of low latency driver performance, you have other powerful options available to monitor directly within the SAWStudio virtual environment, with no need for external mixers or signal routing. These options require that your system and audio card drivers are capable of stable glitch-free performance with buffer settings of 3 x 128 or lower. 3 x 64 is a great choice for virtual realtime signal monitoring. The Out and In buffer sizes should be set the same. The In-buffer-count should be set to 4 or higher and will not add to the monitor latency. The Out-buffer-count does add to the monitor latency and should set as low as possible while still maintaining stable system operation. Only a few audio card drivers are capable of this performance using the MME driver model. Most will require you to use the ASIO driver model to approach these low latencies.

    The record meter input assignment allows you to select a Stereo Device, Mono Device, or Mixer Channel as the signal source. All three of these selections will offer monitoring capabilities with the use of the Tape-Style Auto Audio-Monitoring Switching options found under the Options menu.

    One option is called Tape Style - Playback / Input Switching. This option will switch between the record signal input and the MultiTrack playback automatically when you punch-in record. In Rec/Rdy or Rec mode, the record signal input will be routed through the record channel console module. When SRP is engaged, the MultiTrack playback data will be the monitor source and when you engage the Rec button to punch-in, the monitor source will switch to the record signal input, exactly like most professional multitrack tape decks.

    The second option is called Tape Style - Input Always On. In Rec/Rdy or Rec mode, the record signal input will be routed through the record channel console module. When SRP is engaged, the MultiTrack playback will be mixed with the record signal input allowing you to monitor both sources together. When the Rec button is engaged to punch-in, the monitor source will switch to the record signal input only, muting the MultiTrack playback signal.

    These exciting engine features make recording and monitoring possible completely in the virtual environment. It's now very easy to setup headphone mixes using the pre-aux sends and even blend reverb into the phones mixes without the need for any external mixing hardware.

    If you select Mixer Channels as record sources and you have assigned those channels to Live Input Devices, instead of MultiTrack sources, the channel assignments for those tracks will automatically switch to MultiTrack playback if there is region data on them and will mute the playback when record is punched in. If the Tape Style - Input Always On option is active, the live input channels will stay active and blend with the MultiTrack track playback until record is punched in.

    The Pre Patch Signal Flow routing will be handled correctly in that, if the recording point is post Eq and Dynamics, the monitor playback will be post of the processing also, so you will not double process the playback data. If the recording point is pre Eq and Dynamics, the monitor playback will route pre processing so it sounds the same as when monitoring the input source.

    When monitoring through the SAWStudio virtual console, you can create your own main mix for the control room (usually Device-Out 1) as well as up to 6 stereo Aux-Send mixes directed to headphones for the performers (Aux Masters assigned to Device Outs 2-7). In most cases you will set the Aux mixes to Pre Fader so changes to your control room mix do not affect the headphone mixes. You can also use 1 Aux bus for virtual reverb and still have 5 stereo headphone mixes, which can also receive the reverb returns through Output channel assigns properly routed.

    You must be careful not to use plugins which alter buffer sizes or add latency (by withholding samples) when using live virtual monitoring. The input latency will be affected and cause monitoring delays. An icon will display on the main window titlebar if active plugins are altering buffer sizes. You can click on the icon to see which plugin on which channel is the first in the processing chain with this behavior. You should bypass all plugins exhibiting this behavior until the recording and live monitoring process is complete.

    One of the record modes must be engaged for metering and monitoring signals to be active. Use Rec/Rdy while sitting idle to set levels and adjust headphone mixes with the realtime monitoring. You may then engage SRP and Rec modes directly from Rec/Rdy without stopping the engine. When you do press Stop on the Record Remote Transport, Rec/Rdy will be re-engaged keeping the meters and monitor signals active.

    Normal recording direct from device-ins, while monitoring from an external mixer source, adjusts the record region sync position using the Auto Latency Adjust value only. Sync is not dependent on buffer latency size settings and therefore makes perfect recordings even on slow audio drivers and hardware. Overdubbing will be in perfect sync when monitoring playback from any bus out directly or from Aux-Send-Masters assigned to device outs. This mode uses an external mixer (or soundcard driver hardware mixer) to split the source signal and blend it with the playback signal from SAWStudio for headphone monitoring during recording.

    Recording direct from device-ins, while monitoring direct from the SAWStudio virtual console, adjusts the record region sync position using a combination of the Auto Latency Adjust value as well as the exact internal buffer latency present in the monitor chain. The record signal is taken directly from the device input before any channel processing. This allows you to freely use all channel processing for the monitor mixes without affecting the record signal itself..

    Recording from mixer channels assigned to live device-ins, while monitoring direct from the SAWStudio virtual console, adjusts the record region sync position using a combination of the Auto Latency Adjust value as well as the exact internal buffer latency present in the monitor chain. Recording from mixer channels with VST synths patched into the Pre Patch point, while monitoring direct from the SAWStudio virtual console, adjusts the record region sync position using the exact internal buffer latency present in the monitor chain only. Overdubbing will be in perfect sync, regardless of the monitor latency, when monitoring playback from any bus out directly or from Aux-Send-Masters assigned to device outs. The record signal is taken from the Pre Patch point when recording from mixer channel sources. The record signal will include the EQ and Dynamics section of the virtual mixer unless the Pre Patch point routing has been changed in the Mixer menu Pre-Fx Patch Signal Flow option. You may monitor the Control Room signal from the main faders and freely use the Mute and Solo buttons without disturbing the recording. You may also use Pre or Pst Aux Sends to send monitor mixes to performers through headphones. If you are not using one of the Tape-Style monitor modes, temporary playback override of the mixer channel device-in source assignments can be done by pressing the [Shift] key when you start playback. This will force all mixer channels to MultiTrack source for the duration of this playback so you can easily listen back to the recording without having to change your input assignments. When you are finished recording, you should then change all mixer channel source assignments to MultiTrack for normal editing and mixing operations.
    A special Live Aux-Send-Return processing loop feature is designed into the engine to allow the use of hardware processing gear to be blended into the mix in perfect sync regardless of the latency buffer settings. This mode is automatically engaged when an Aux-Send-Master is assigned to an out-device and its corresponding Return is assigned to an in-device. This mode splits the engine and delays the out buffers while leaving the Aux-Send signals in original time, thereby allowing the normally delayed hardware processing data to arrive and mix into the playback in perfect time. This does not require low latency buffer settings, but it does however delay the normal playback signal, and therefore will add latency to Live Mode virtual monitoring. Only the Aux-Send-Return device pairs will be affected, therefore you may still use other aux sends as headphone monitors, as well as any other bus out. The record signals will all be properly adjusted to drop in perfect sync regardless of the added monitor delay. This mode is best suited for mixdown operations where hardware processing gear is desired in realtime. It is recommended that you do not assign Return channels to in-devices when using Live input channels for virtual monitoring, in order to obtain the lowest possible monitor latency.

    Bob L



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