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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Donnie I agree that the labeling is not intuitive and that the manual is poorly written. But correct me if I'm wrong here but you're not certain one way or the other that if putting the subs in link mode disables the crossover or not. Well there is one way to tell that should be pretty obvious, just send it full bandwidth audio and you should know right away.

    Obviously it's easy to sit here and logically think about it when not in the rush to get things done. But I suspect that the low pass on the cross over is probably just always engaged and that switch just turns on and off the high pass for the output port. Who knows I could be wrong. But if it's a speaker you're going to use all the time, as I mentioned above it wouldn't be all that hard to figure it out.

    I get it you're just venting. But really what do we expect from some cheap crap loudspeaker. You don't always get what you paid for, but you often do. Better brands have better manuals and less cryptic labeling.
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Computers and Audio
    http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
    SAC System Details and other goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, N.M.
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    1,098

    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    Donnie I agree that the labeling is not intuitive and that the manual is poorly written. But correct me if I'm wrong here but you're not certain one way or the other that if putting the subs in link mode disables the crossover or not. Well there is one way to tell that should be pretty obvious, just send it full bandwidth audio and you should know right away.
    You're absolutely correct. I conceded that I would do this exact test in another one of the comments.




    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    Obviously it's easy to sit here and logically think about it when not in the rush to get things done.
    Exactly. As you can imagine, the first thing I checked were the settings. To me, being set in "Crossover" mode seemed right. So then my second thought was "bad cable." When replacing the cables failed, I went back to the backplate. It was at this point that the labeling became not just unintuitive, but counter-intuitive. In my mind "link" was "full range," and "Crossover" was, well, a low-pass on the sub. Now that I know better, next gig, when I'm not trouble-shooting 20 minutes before downbeat, I'll run the exact test you describe above. And you can bet I will report my findings.




    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    But I suspect that the low pass on the cross over is probably just always engaged and that switch just turns on and off the high pass for the output port.
    My suspicions exactly.





    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    Who knows I could be wrong. But if it's a speaker you're going to use all the time, as I mentioned above it wouldn't be all that hard to figure it out.
    Agreed. Piece of cake. Now that I know what I'm dealing with, how the switches work, and what to look for, it should take less than a minute to see if "Link" is full range or low-pass.




    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    I get it you're just venting. But really what do we expect from some cheap crap loudspeaker.
    Touché. To reiterate, *I* didn't buy them. My client did. And then showed up with them at a gig. Without the manual. Or knowing how they work. Was it you who coined the phrase "Combat Audio?"





    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post

    You don't always get what you paid for, but you often do. Better brands have better manuals and less cryptic labeling.
    To the credit of these Harbingers, for 400 bucks each, stacked 3-high, they kick butt pretty good. I was able to easily fill the room with enough bottom for a live rock band. That's extremely impressive considering their size, weight and price point. When all this is done, I may even pick up one or two for myself. I love my JBL SRX718s subs coupled with my QSC PLX3602's, but the days of passive speakers are fading quickly. I've already invested in K12's so my JBL SRX712m's are collecting dust. At one point I had 8 of them. I was able to sell 4 on craigslist @ $600/each, which is about what I paid for them used via eBay. But I digress...

    I may even do a full video review. To date, all I can find are cell phone-ish videos done by DJ's. LOL...DJ's should NOT review pro gear. I love how they hold their cell phone up to the sub and proclaim, "Listen to all that bass." Hilarious...but I digress again....

    Good night.

    D
    DF

    http://soundaddy.com

    Intel DG965OT Motherboard (11/17/08) - Intel P4 LGA-775 651 (Cedar Mill) 3.4GHz CPU
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    RME HDSP 9652 (x2 - 1 spare) - Behringer ADA8000 (x5 - 2 spares)
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, N.M.
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    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post
    Good luck figuring it out. My QSC system keeps it simple: all the daisy-chain ins and outs are full-spectrum (KW181 sub and K12 tops), so I don't have to think. I can just throw a switch on my K12's if I want to high-pass their sound when a sub is running.
    Touché. I love the QSC offerings. And yes, their backplates are very intuitive.

    D
    DF

    http://soundaddy.com

    Intel DG965OT Motherboard (11/17/08) - Intel P4 LGA-775 651 (Cedar Mill) 3.4GHz CPU
    2.0GB 800Mhz RAM - 40GB Intel X25-V SSD - 500GB SATA "Spinner"

    RME HDSP 9652 (x2 - 1 spare) - Behringer ADA8000 (x5 - 2 spares)
    CM MotorMix (x3 - Host system) - Behringer BCF-2000 (Remote system)


  4. #14

    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie Frank View Post
    Touché. I love the QSC offerings. And yes, their backplates are very intuitive.

    D
    FWIW -- I hope I didn't "sound" sarcastic. I really meant "good luck."
    Dave "it aint the heat, it's the humidity" Labrecque
    Becket, Massachusetts

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, N.M.
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    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post
    FWIW -- I hope I didn't "sound" sarcastic.
    No sir....not at all.




    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Labrecque View Post

    I really meant "good luck."
    Thanx! I will post my findings in this thread, and may even start a new one once I get a chance to run tests on the Harbingers. Heck...I might even make a video.

    D
    DF

    http://soundaddy.com

    Intel DG965OT Motherboard (11/17/08) - Intel P4 LGA-775 651 (Cedar Mill) 3.4GHz CPU
    2.0GB 800Mhz RAM - 40GB Intel X25-V SSD - 500GB SATA "Spinner"

    RME HDSP 9652 (x2 - 1 spare) - Behringer ADA8000 (x5 - 2 spares)
    CM MotorMix (x3 - Host system) - Behringer BCF-2000 (Remote system)


  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
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    3,489

    Default Re: Harbinger V2218S subwoofer warning or, "Assumption is the mother of ****umption..

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie Frank View Post

    Was it you who coined the phrase "Combat Audio?"




    Not me. It may have been Joe, I don't remember now. Most of my works is just the opposite of "combat audio". One or two days of load in, several rehearsals over the course of a week or so and then the show might run between 3 or 4 performances up to "whenever they stop making money selling tickets"... but most have runs of 3 to 6 weeks. Sounds like a lot of time, but really a lot of that time is spent waiting on others.. lighting, scenery, actors... etc.. And then it's a couple of days till opening, and you've run the show once maybe and you get the looks of why isn't the audio perfect the 1st time. :-)

    My favorite combat audio post here was the one time an actual military person sent a shot from Iraq or maybe it was Afghanistan, with a stage in the middle of the desert and the caption "this is actual combat audio". Gotta say.. yep you win. We don't do combat audio here, closest I've come is one off concert events and cruise ship work where if something goes wrong.. well what's on the ship is what you have to work with... no overnight shipping while floating around in the middle of the Atlantic.
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Computers and Audio
    http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
    SAC System Details and other goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
    Email Based User List: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sac_users/

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