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  1. #1

    Default What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    Hi everyone,

    It has been a long time since I have been on the forum. We have just started live streaming the church services at our church, and are having a rough time trying to mix the live stream audio on an ipad using the M7CL software. I would like to find a way to interface SAC to the system and run a completely separate mix. The M7CL does not have direct outs to tie into, and so I am looking to build a SAC rig that can intercept the analog snake before it gets to the console, and allow me to create two totally separate systems from the same mic feeds. My previous SAC rig was built with ADA8000s and RME interface card. I am looking for something that does not involve ADAT optical interfaces, and I need at least 48 channels. I have been researching AES-50 and DANTE, but am having trouble finding a cost effective hardware setup that will do what I need. Any suggestions?

  2. Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    You will need some preamps in front of SAC, if you want a completely separate system, and if you don't want to uses ADAT, the most cost effective is probably the Yamaha TIO box. It has Dante out, and you could probably get away with using the Dante Virtuel Soundcard, if the extra latency doesn't matter.
    Peter Olsen

    Hardware: Asus TUF Z270 mark 2, Intel Core i3-7350K, 8 GB ram, 250GB NVMe SSD, 2 RayDAT, 2 DSB2408 preamp/converters.
    OS: Windows 10. Buffer: 1X32.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    ...contact Yamaha's DANTE personnel for the details....
    as far as I remember you can connect all this toget
    her


    Dante PCIe card
    http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global...e_accelerator/

    3xDante preamps
    https://www.audinate.com/dante-enabl...a-tio1608-d-io

    to connect all just use a network switch


    Cheers,
    Nik

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    Dante enabled Preamps probably are your best bet these days. A few things to keep in mind.

    1. If your SAC mix is just for Broadcast then you don't need a PCI card or other Dante hardware interface. Dante Virtual Sound card should work fine since a bit of extra latency won't be an issue.
    2. The TIO 1608 is by far the more reasonably priced unit but you could also use the RIO units as well. Which could be your 1st step towards replacing the M7 with a CL or QL console down the road.
    3. You'll need to use the Yamaha software to remote control the preamps.
    4. The Dante cards for the M7 are not inexpensive and frankly at this point in time I think it's a waste of money to put more money into a console that you'll want to get rid of a in a few years. But at least those cards will probably hold their value and you could sell them off. Keep in mind you don't need these Dante cards for Yamaha's new consoles.
    5. The Dante cards for the M7 only allow for 16 channels of I/O to and from the M7 console. So you'll probably need 3 of those Dante cards for the M7 if you want to use all 48 inputs on the M7 via Dante.
    6. The M7 does have direct outputs on each input channel. You just don't get a physical jack on the back of the console. So you could do the split inside the M7 using any form of digital output card available on the M7 to get the feed into your SAC mixing computer. That could be ADAT or Dante or whatever you like. It could save you a few bucks by continuing to use the M7 for the preamps and just send the direct outs via digital to SAC. It all depends on how you want to do it.
    7. The M7 has famously mediocre sounding preamps, so not going the route in number 7 above will likely sound much better. Depends on how much you want to spend.
    Richard B. Ingraham
    RBI Computers and Audio
    http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com
    SAC System Details and other goodies at: http://www.rbicompaudio.20m.com/SAC.html
    Email Based User List: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sac_users/

  5. #5

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    FEW MORE OPTIONS

    Yamaha PCI Dante Card is is 64I/O 1.130 Eur

    Ferrofish Verto32 is another way 990 Eur 32ch I/O Dante, ADAT... so if you have a RME PCI card around you could take advantage of!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfGq16odNR8

    RME Digiface Dante 1.230 Eur 64 I/O Dante + 64 I/O MADI, USB3 ,
    http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/digiface_dante.php

    Check them all out!
    Last edited by operationwhat; 08-28-2018 at 04:25 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    https://appsys.ch/en/products/digita...iverter-mvr-64
    (nearly) everything to everything :-)

  7. #7

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomyN View Post
    https://appsys.ch/en/products/digita...iverter-mvr-64
    (nearly) everything to everything :-)
    We all know about Multiverter but it is expensive!!! Anyway...is it just a converter or a usb card too??
    How do you control the preaps using the Multiverter, when using digico,

  8. #8

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    I went with Dante a few years ago and never looked back. I did an experiment with SAC, DVS, and a laptop. Sac saw the channels from DVS and it worked just fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by RBIngraham View Post
    Dante enabled Preamps probably are your best bet these days. A few things to keep in mind.

    1. If your SAC mix is just for Broadcast then you don't need a PCI card or other Dante hardware interface. Dante Virtual Sound card should work fine since a bit of extra latency won't be an issue.
    2. The TIO 1608 is by far the more reasonably priced unit but you could also use the RIO units as well. Which could be your 1st step towards replacing the M7 with a CL or QL console down the road.
    3. You'll need to use the Yamaha software to remote control the preamps.
    4. The Dante cards for the M7 are not inexpensive and frankly at this point in time I think it's a waste of money to put more money into a console that you'll want to get rid of a in a few years. But at least those cards will probably hold their value and you could sell them off. Keep in mind you don't need these Dante cards for Yamaha's new consoles.
    5. The Dante cards for the M7 only allow for 16 channels of I/O to and from the M7 console. So you'll probably need 3 of those Dante cards for the M7 if you want to use all 48 inputs on the M7 via Dante.
    6. The M7 does have direct outputs on each input channel. You just don't get a physical jack on the back of the console. So you could do the split inside the M7 using any form of digital output card available on the M7 to get the feed into your SAC mixing computer. That could be ADAT or Dante or whatever you like. It could save you a few bucks by continuing to use the M7 for the preamps and just send the direct outs via digital to SAC. It all depends on how you want to do it.
    7. The M7 has famously mediocre sounding preamps, so not going the route in number 7 above will likely sound much better. Depends on how much you want to spend.
    X-32 Rack
    CubasePro 9.5
    Dante Network
    Live band
    Moved away from SAC years ago
    Happy to answer any questions about the X-32 or Dante

  9. Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Follett View Post
    I went with Dante a few years ago and never looked back. I did an experiment with SAC, DVS, and a laptop. Sac saw the channels from DVS and it worked just fine.
    Do you have any latency issues with the DVS? Are you running SAC for FOH and MM or just for a broadcast mix?

  10. #10

    Default Re: What is the best way to interface SAC to a Yamaha M7CL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale B View Post
    Do you have any latency issues with the DVS? Are you running SAC for FOH and MM or just for a broadcast mix?
    Sorry for the late response but I moved away from SAC years ago. Just happened to have some time on my hands and looked at the forum.

    You sound like you know what you need to make Dante work. DVS is not suitable for live - latency is too much. I think it's 10-20 ms with my setup - in any case, it's not usable live. I use the network to play tracks from my laptop to an X-32 rack and plug all my mics/in-ears into the back of the X-32. The only latency I have to deal with it what comes from the laptop and the way I'm using it, we never realize the latency. If the tracks come in 20 ms late from the laptop it doesn't matter.

    You wanted to create a stream for live broadcast (audio or video and audio?) Dante is the way to go. I use an inexpensive router and send all my data from the X-32 whatever where ever I need it. You can definitely send it to SAC - I did it way back when using DVS on the SAC machine as an experiment. That's the attraction of Dante. Once the data is available on the "net", you can seamlessly "pick it off" as many times as you have the hardware or computers for and do anything you want with it (mix it, EQ - you know all that....) without effecting the original signal -the ultimate digital splitter that used to take lots of cables and boxes to do analogue. Even if you have live video on your broadcast, you could probably get away with the DVS latency without it looking too out of sync. I've seen YouTube videos more jacked up than that. I'm sure someone on here would know how to delay a video feed 10-20 ms to make the video/audio perfectly synced.

    I'm sure there are guys with way more technical savvy and experience with Dante on here but I know enough to make it work for me and in general, it's "stupid simple" to set up. I record our entire gig (up to 32 channels) from the network on a 20 year old Gateway Laptop running Reaper (of you could certainly use SAC and send it back out live) and DVS by simply plugging in the cat 5 cable. As soon as I started DVS, told it how many channels in/out I wanted it to make available, Reaper (and SAC way back when) saw it all as an ASIO driver and it was available to the DAWS .I import the wav files from Reaper to Cubase to mix it and sync it to GoPro/phones/camcorders/whatever video with Adobe Premiere - the best DAW is the one you know how to use, right.

    Happy to explain whatever I left out. Just email me directly. I see my signature was way out of date.
    Last edited by Andy Follett; 10-17-2018 at 03:31 PM.
    X-32 Rack
    CubasePro 9.5
    Dante Network
    Live band
    Moved away from SAC years ago
    Happy to answer any questions about the X-32 or Dante

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