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Thread: OT: Used Gear

  1. #1

    Question OT: Used Gear

    Our church has, over my strenuous objections, replaced our SAC system from 2009 with a Midas M32. Consequently, we have several TubeOpto 8s and ADA8000s available. Obviously the money they will fetch is "what the market is willing to pay," but any guesses about what we could reasonably ask?

    The ART units have all had the troublesome Alesis chip replaced at the factory and work flawlessly. The Behringers were always run on a 100V stepdown transformer (though I know they are not worth much, if anything).

    Shipping will be a hassle since I'd have to scrounge some appropriate sized (read "large, but shallow") boxes.

    Any guidance is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Don
    Don
    ___________

    Asus PQ5E, Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 GHz, 4Gb DDR2 1000 RAM, XP Pro SP3, RME RayDAT, 4 x ADA8000, WNDR3700

    Sometimes the dragon wins...

  2. #2

    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by wd5don View Post
    Our church has, over my strenuous objections, replaced our SAC system from 2009 with a Midas M32. Consequently, we have several TubeOpto 8s and ADA8000s available. Obviously the money they will fetch is "what the market is willing to pay," but any guesses about what we could reasonably ask?

    The ART units have all had the troublesome Alesis chip replaced at the factory and work flawlessly. The Behringers were always run on a 100V stepdown transformer (though I know they are not worth much, if anything).

    Shipping will be a hassle since I'd have to scrounge some appropriate sized (read "large, but shallow") boxes.

    Any guidance is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Don

    It seems to me that scouring ebay and reverb (maybe others too) with searches for the gear you are selling can give you a very good feel for not only what the current trends in pricing are, but also how the condition of what you're selling stacks up to the others (for better, or worse) as well as how much other like gear has been selling for over the past few months (ebay has a check box for this filter option... not sure about others).

    If you're a bit handy with a box cutter/straight edge and have a good mind for calculating how to configure a box's dimensions, you might be able to cut your costs (no pun intended) on materials by finding large shipping boxes about to be thrown out at local stores and then trimming them down to size. Stores generally will give those away - but be sure to ask nicely! Leave space in your calculations to allow for ample packing material to protect the units. Large bubble wrap can be really handy packing material and doesn't annoy a buyer with piles of foam peanuts to throw out...
    SAW/SAC - finally retired a P4/2gHz after ten great years! Burnin' rubber in 2015 with an Intel Core2 Duo e4700/2.6GHz and the trusty RME Digiface/PCI pack.

    2013 Iowa City JazzFest sets recorded/mixed in SAW with SAC as a front-end mixer for live streaming radio!
    Dr Lonnie Smith Trio w/Jonathan Kreisberg on guitar
    Pharoah Sanders Quartet
    Fred Hersch Trio

    These are post mix sets to single camera video (by Rich Rauch).

  3. Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by UpTilDawn View Post
    It seems to me that scouring ebay and reverb (maybe others too) with searches for the gear you are selling can give you a very good feel for not only what the current trends in pricing are, but also how the condition of what you're selling stacks up to the others (for better, or worse) as well as how much other like gear has been selling for over the past few months (ebay has a check box for this filter option... not sure about others).

    If you're a bit handy with a box cutter/straight edge and have a good mind for calculating how to configure a box's dimensions, you might be able to cut your costs (no pun intended) on materials by finding large shipping boxes about to be thrown out at local stores and then trimming them down to size. Stores generally will give those away - but be sure to ask nicely! Leave space in your calculations to allow for ample packing material to protect the units. Large bubble wrap can be really handy packing material and doesn't annoy a buyer with piles of foam peanuts to throw out...
    The church I was at did the same thing. They replaced my SAC rig with a Presonus Series III 32 channel mixer at the advice of someone who knew better. I took my SAC rig and left. One year later the know betters have left and I'm back having to mix on that board. It's a little over a year old and the first two channels have already burnt out on it. It has some nice features that look like the developers were playing catch up with SAC but it's still harder to mix on than the SAC/SAW system. I could pretty much mix with one hand and flip the song slides with the other. Now I have to really pay attention to whats going on and can't resolve issues as fast as before. But hey, the know betters knew better. I guess I'm venting my frustration since I have to work harder with the new mixer and miss the SAC/SAW rig they had.

  4. #4

    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale B View Post
    The church I was at did the same thing. They replaced my SAC rig with a Presonus Series III 32 channel mixer at the advice of someone who knew better. I took my SAC rig and left. One year later the know betters have left and I'm back having to mix on that board. It's a little over a year old and the first two channels have already burnt out on it. It has some nice features that look like the developers were playing catch up with SAC but it's still harder to mix on than the SAC/SAW system. I could pretty much mix with one hand and flip the song slides with the other. Now I have to really pay attention to whats going on and can't resolve issues as fast as before. But hey, the know betters knew better. I guess I'm venting my frustration since I have to work harder with the new mixer and miss the SAC/SAW rig they had.
    I totally get it, Dale. We've been on the M32 for about 6 weeks now and though I'm usually playing on the platform instead of sitting in the congregation during the music, the thing is killing me. They didn't even bother to copy the building EQ settings in from the SAC system. I still haven't figured out how to configure stereo submixes for monitors. And the "know betters" were convinced that the SAC system was hard to understand and use...NOT!
    Don
    ___________

    Asus PQ5E, Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16 GHz, 4Gb DDR2 1000 RAM, XP Pro SP3, RME RayDAT, 4 x ADA8000, WNDR3700

    Sometimes the dragon wins...

  5. #5
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    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    I've got an X32 and though the physical board layout is different than the M32...the software and implementation is the same. You press Select on Mix Bus 1, press the configuration button on the console and press the link button. That will link Mixbus 1 and 2 giving you a stereo output.

    Or go to the homepage press the Mixbus 1 select button and Tab over 1 place on the screen and press the Link button.

    Drew Brashler has some excellent videos on YouTube on the operation of the X32 and check out Ascension Worship on YouTube as well. Their Tech Tuesday feature has a lot of info.

    My SAC rig is on vacation at the moment as I've been using my X32 console and X32 rack for the past year now. I had SAC freeze up, re-engage and then scramble my channels and lock out control at an important show on the last song. Never could figure out what happened....never could duplicate it...and haven;t trusted the set up since. The band was very upset and did not work with me again.

    The X32 / M32 has a learning curve but it's not been difficult. The bands I work with now accept the system and accept me mixng from an iPad. They never did fully trust the SAC concept.

    Just my experience...
    -SAC,SAWStudioLite,Midi Workshop,SATLive, Reaper
    -SAC Host (24 channel): Various Laptops via Digiface into APPSYS Adat extenders into (3) ADA8000,(2) BCF2000 controllers, 1x64 resolution
    -SAC Host (32 Channel): Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz , 4 Gig DDR/800mz RAM, ASUS PK5PL-CM MotherBd,XP Pro SP3, RME Raydat, (4) ADA8000's
    -SAC Remote: Various Tablets via AMPED Router
    -SAW Host : Asus Laptop, i7 12g RAM

  6. #6
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    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Scott View Post
    I've got an X32 and though the physical board layout is different than the M32...the software and implementation is the same. You press Select on Mix Bus 1, press the configuration button on the console and press the link button. That will link Mixbus 1 and 2 giving you a stereo output.

    Or go to the homepage press the Mixbus 1 select button and Tab over 1 place on the screen and press the Link button.

    Drew Brashler has some excellent videos on YouTube on the operation of the X32 and check out Ascension Worship on YouTube as well. Their Tech Tuesday feature has a lot of info.

    My SAC rig is on vacation at the moment as I've been using my X32 console and X32 rack for the past year now. I had SAC freeze up, re-engage and then scramble my channels and lock out control at an important show on the last song. Never could figure out what happened....never could duplicate it...and haven;t trusted the set up since. The band was very upset and did not work with me again.

    The X32 / M32 has a learning curve but it's not been difficult. The bands I work with now accept the system and accept me mixng from an iPad. They never did fully trust the SAC concept.

    Just my experience...
    All consoles can and do fail, thats why touring companies always carry spare power supplies or even entire spare consoles.

    The X32 and M32 consoles are perfectly decent boards but don't think for a moment they are any more robust than a SAC rig designed as a console.

    My SAC rig has been completely stable for more than 10 years. I've had nobody complain or worry about me mixing wirelessly and the SAC console is way more flexible than either the X32 or M32.

    It simply requires building a system with the mindset of designing a dedicated console. The X32 and M32 are effectively just that. They are still systems running software.
    ---------------------------------------
    Philip G.

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    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Philip,
    They are still systems running software.
    ...How true this point is...

    A story of note...as a result of my involvement with the MiniFlex 2Mic, I had some frequent dialogue with a client from Frankfurt, Germany a few years back.

    As is common in conversations, many various paths were involved - one being the use of various audio software. During that conversation, I mentioned to my client that I used a "mixer-in-a-box" application call Software Audio Console. To my surprise, he mentioned that he was very familiar with the software and that a friend of his who owns a very popular Gaststätte - that is restaurant to you and me, has been using SAC for years for the live acts that appear in the restaurant. He made a comment that the X-series Behringer consoles are considered as X-rated and are not permitted for use in his restaurant. I thought that comment was indeed a cute one.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: OT: Used Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by cgrafx View Post
    All consoles can and do fail, thats why touring companies always carry spare power supplies or even entire spare consoles.

    The X32 and M32 consoles are perfectly decent boards but don't think for a moment they are any more robust than a SAC rig designed as a console.

    My SAC rig has been completely stable for more than 10 years. I've had nobody complain or worry about me mixing wirelessly and the SAC console is way more flexible than either the X32 or M32.

    It simply requires building a system with the mindset of designing a dedicated console. The X32 and M32 are effectively just that. They are still systems running software.


    You've not had my Clients then Phillip! That's a good thing. It's starting to change now as most gigs in our area HAVE to be mixed on an iPad as the venues have eliminated the FOH position to make room for 2 more tables.

    So...bands have no choice. Have your FOH guy mix from the console from the side of the stage or...have him mix from an iPad.

    Now...in our market place attitudes are starting to change...From an iPad perspective...it matters little to them whether it's a SAC system, Behringer, Midas or any other system...they are getting used to seeing Sound Techs mixing from an iPad. Though i still get seasoned experienced musicians blown away that you can actually do that. For whatever reason....it's just not n their collective conciousness that such technology was possible.

    I've run my SAC system for 8 years with rock solid stability...except for that one gig. It seemed to be a WIFI issue that caused the System to lock up and scramble. It was a problem that has been noted in the past on the forum by a couple of veteran SAC users who...unfortunately were banned from the forum ...and who are now "reluctant" to share their stories. I emailed them directly and they did share with me what the problem was. The one guy had this happen in front of 2000 people....so I got off lightly in front of my 100.

    Suffice it to say....if you are mixing FOH via a remote tablet and you have a Laptop running FOH....MAKE SURE THE FOH LAPTOP IS PLUGGED DIRECTLY IN TO YOUR WIFI ROUTER VIA CAT5. Mine was not connected with the CAT5 cable properly...it had been partially pulled out when a band member moved some equipment. The FOH Laptop then connected wirelessly...and during the Encore....when the FOH laptop lost it's wifi connection... it killed the show and scrambled my FOH settings....locking me out of some channels and muting others. The only fix is a shut down of the FOH Laptop and reboot. Something you cannot do during the last song / Finale / Encore of the show. Lead singer was running around the stage trying to find a vocal mic that worked...and the Sax player took an extended solo into a mic that no longer was connected to his assigned channel. As I said...completely scrambled the channels and randomly muted inputs with no way to fix until a complete reboot.

    The band chose not to work with me again until I replaced my "homemade system" with a "real Board". (their words...not mine). I've had several other bands look suspiciously at the SAC rig as well. So...I'm glad you never had these issues. I did.

    I don't anymore as they trust the physical console...and / or at least the Stage box of the X32...

    I'm reluctant to give up my SAC system though...as I really like a lot of what it can do. I like the fact that it can run VST's and the ability to stack EQ's is priceless. I also like using the Studio Levelizer as output protection on Monitors and IEM's.
    -SAC,SAWStudioLite,Midi Workshop,SATLive, Reaper
    -SAC Host (24 channel): Various Laptops via Digiface into APPSYS Adat extenders into (3) ADA8000,(2) BCF2000 controllers, 1x64 resolution
    -SAC Host (32 Channel): Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz , 4 Gig DDR/800mz RAM, ASUS PK5PL-CM MotherBd,XP Pro SP3, RME Raydat, (4) ADA8000's
    -SAC Remote: Various Tablets via AMPED Router
    -SAW Host : Asus Laptop, i7 12g RAM

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